We went together and bought a second hand desktop (exciting the people selling to us also) and when I got home I pulled out the Ram, HD and CD drive and set them aside; and then together with a screwdriver we “built the computer” over a few days.
In windows when a child goes searching the web for a “movie maker for windows” they are going to be in a world of hurt either finding expensive commercial options or super scammy sites promising the world.
By comparison on Linux if they search the local “app store” they’ll find stacks and stacks of free, useful, open licensed software.
My kids loved the power, freedom and later unexpected community this bought them.
Now my friend wants the same for their daughter who is 8 years old.
I’m planning to do the same and go with her parents and her and buy a second hand desktop together and then put Linux on it.
My question is where would you go from there? What suggestions do you have? What to install? Any mini “curriculums” or ideas?
Would love to hear your ideas and experiences. Linux with free and open software is the goal and focus.
I gave mine to my son. I figured that my son might want to use the touch screen I went with Gnome because it seemed a little more touch friendly. I told myself it doesn't matter because he is 8 and I can always reinstall.
I chose Debian (Stable) so I wouldn't have to deal with keeping it updated, put a root password to prevent them from going crazy with installing stuff.
I will have to put Scratch on it someday, for the moment he cares about the following:
- the LEGO website to look at instructions - the music player to listen to soundtracks from his favourite games - MyPaint for making drawings
He is starting to figure out the idea of folders, deleting things, undo, etc., but hasn't asked for any other software or even games yet.
I am a professor and would like for my son to learn about word processors, spreadsheets, programming, etc.. If he ever asks, I will give him the root password and let him browse the repos. Right now, I'm just happy to see him enjoy it without doing what lots of his friends do: sit in front of YouTube all afternoon.
The Kano was nice, because it was built for kids and had some guided stuff to help get them into it with various software and hardware to play around with.
With the Pi 400 it was stock Raspbian. The kid wasn’t sure where to begin. While it came with a book geared toward kids, I don’t know that he read it. I was trying to find a way to show him around to stuff he might think is fun, without it seeming boring over overwhelming, but I didn’t feel it went that well. I was also living 6 hours away at the time, so there weren’t regular visits for questions or to help things along, and the parents didn’t know anything about Linux.
Ultimately, I don’t think it inspired them as much as I was hoping. All they actually wanted was something to play Minecraft on, and the Pi edition was a very compromised experience for Minecraft. The Kano did have a mode to let people use Scratch type programming to automate aspects of building, which I thought was really cool, but it didn’t totally seem to click… though I did see some limited use after a couple years.
I think not having someone in the house who can guide and field questions really hindered the ability for them to really thrive on Linux. It would probably be worth including a series of lessons to ramp up their skills and knowledge. Doing something like that was difficult for me due to the distance and also not so much parental support on the idea of kids on computers. I was swimming against the current a little with those gifts, because I thought it was important they get access to the main tool they are likely to use throughout their life.
https://distrowatch.com/table-mobile.php?distribution=endles...
I think it is also important to realize/point out that we do a lot of projecting and our child may have very different interests. Not saying that applies to you evolve2k, just wanted to make the general point.
I set up a Linux machine with our daughter and while it was initially ok, she did not have much interest in the power/freedom and it only became a nuisance for her. Her school/friends use PowerPoint - there is a lot of friction trying work with them in LibreOffice. She wanted to do DTP-like things several times and the Linux options are not exactly... user-friendly. Etc.
In the end we got her a Mac Mini. She can still open a terminal, use Homebrew, etc. if she ever develops an interest. Heck, she can use most free software. However, she can also do the stuff she is currently interested in much more easily. E.g., she uses Swift Publisher, which is a very simple/user-friendly DTP program, can collaborate on PowerPoint presentations when needed, etc.
First and foremost listen to what your child is interested in.
>In windows when a child goes searching the web for a “movie maker for windows” they are going to be in a world of hurt either finding expensive commercial options or super scammy sites promising the world.
It's funny that you use that example because the state of video editors on Windows have never been better from industry standard free options (DaVinci Resolve) to FOSS options (KDEnlive, Openshot, Shotcut, Avidemux etc).
What you describe is a Google / web / browser problem not an OS one
Ununtu (non root) and timekeeper plus. I work with them when they want to install something or do updates.
They have steam, minecraft, OpenRA for games and are happy.
They create music, program arduinos, edit videos they make with friends.
Why ZFS? So that backups are easy, snapshots are cheap, and when the inevitable happens, it takes a few minutes to reboot and roll back.
Why Debian Stable? Because it will continue to work and get security updates for years, without changing out from underneath them without notice.
I would also recommend that any computer for an 8 year old be placed in the living room or a similar easy-to-watch-over place. Kids need guidance; if they didn't, they wouldn't be kids.
Adblocking, obviously. Everyone needs that.
Also it's similar enough to Windows that they don't feel completely out of touch on the school computers.
Killer app is Krita for the older one, even got him a cheap Wacom later on.
Otherwise school work, native Linux games, and YouTube. That last one with the younger one I have to keep an eye on. Honestly thinking about blocking access, we'll see.
Both like gaming, so I set up wine for them on my machine with separate accounts. Learning about email, downloads, files and folders by installing Skyrim mods (using kid friendly settings on Nexus), also an exercise in managing frustration...
Anyway everyone will be different, just set up something they'll enjoy. Already for a kid to know Linux exists is a head start.
Be careful - even the most obvious things (to us) won't be to a small child. They'll need a bit of a guiding hand and/or someone to ask questions to. Linux isn't obvious and I wouldn't be too surprised if they run into hard edges at some point (sound driver stops working), without someone to actually go to for help the computer just becomes a brick.
- Someone who installed Linux on his beat-up laptop when he was 12 (*), and faced endless frustration with it. (My parents confiscated the laptop because I started hitting it - later got a Windows desktop that "just worked")
* - I don't remember if it stopped being able to run windows (hardware too weak) or, if the windows partition had corrupted itself and I couldn't afford a new copy of windows.
preloaded with tons of stuff my kid might find cool (depends on his or her interests which nobody knows better than I do), and with completely disabled internet access if kid will be using it without my supervision.
More than enough to keep them entertained and teach them the basics.
I went with Linux Mint XCFE
The issue for all parents is surely online safety, especially so for our youngest.
I managed to prevent the 10 year old acccessing porn and other non child friendly sites.
change the browser to the Mullvad Browser or and librewolf
---------------------
make sure you change the DNS in network manager and the the browser.
https://mullvad.net/en/help/dns-over-https-and-dns-over-tls
I used these:
family blocks: Ads, Trackers, Malware, Adult, Gambling
all blocks: Ads, Trackers, Malware, Adult, Gambling, Social media
family.dns.mulvad.net
all.dns.mullvad.net
you really dont want an 8 year old on, facebook, X, reddit or any of the other trash sites----------------------- search engines:
Qwant provides a safe Junior search.
-----------------------
It takes time to set up.
once it is set up, become a kid and search for porn, gambling etc, to see if you as an adult can find those sites. if you do, block them
to block sites just add lines like these to ublock/my filters section.
If a child does click on them they are blocked and do not open. This also works if the child opens a link from a search engine. This way also removes the proceed button that allows you to bypass the restriction.
facebook.com##^html
youtube.com##^html
threads.com##^html
instagram.com##^html
tiktok.com##^html
pinterest.com##^html
twitter.com##^html
google.com##^html
bing.com##^html
reddit.com##^html
pornhub.com##^html
etc etcfor fun; set up a few aliases, so they can update from the terminal.
This is great for kids, typing update into the terminal and watching it update && upgrade
In my situation i need some type of "remote admin capability", since we are separated :-(
In both school and work it’s overwhelmingly likely they will either be asked to do things in MacOS or Windows only. Make sure they’re proficient there first.
Linux as a personal OS, regardless of how passionate you are about it, is still a hobbyist platform. If your child becomes super into computers, then you can help them dive deeper down the rabbit hole.
But I wouldn’t drop them at the bottom of the rabbit hole prematurely. Just because your kid liked listening to an AC/DC song doesn’t mean they will want to dive immediately into the world of Brutal Deathcore.
Of the important things my father, who definitely is a "tech parent", did for me none of them have anything to do with him teaching me some piece of technology.
To be very frank, if the best thing you have done for your children is getting them to use Linux you are a total failure as a parent. To be fair to you, I do not believe you at all when you say this.
>Now my friend wants the same for their daughter who is 8 years old.
One of the actually most valuable thing my father did for me, definitely in terms of education outcome and career. Was getting me interested and spending time with me and explaining me things. The particulars do not matter, I can not remember them. It is totally irrelevant whether what Linux distro you use or what you teach them. What matters is that the parent is there, explains and encourages.
>Linux with free and open software is the goal and focus.
This is about an 8 year old.
maybe a USB stick with a few distros on it, experimenting with installing them, including dual-booting.. a mix of distros spanning debian/redhat types, and kde/gnome types.. maybe a couple of live distros on their own USB stick.. having a virtual machine in the main install and learning about installing into them..
scratch and python..
I would also consider use of Gentoo as your Linux distribution to force learning about building packages and command line. I would avoid Arch as that might be too much of a challenge.
For me the goal would be forcing them to learn how this stuff works. I would emphasize scripting in the shell like bash scripts, JavaScript via node, Python, and possibly even Perl. This will take a lot of guidance to get this started because they will need some real world use cases about why they immediately benefit.
Once you get the OS finally set up create an ISO of it and put it on both a thumb drive and home file server. Give the kiddo root access to their own computer and let them really break stuff because you can restore from backup
Edit:
Immediately downvoted. This comment apparently caused a nerd god to shed a tear.
Steam works amazingly well. And you can set up family controls.
Roblox works great using "Sober" I don't recommend letting them play Roblox but I'm stuck with it.
Minecraft and Curseforge work well, too.
Time Keeper Next is a great time limiting control system. If you have a little awareness of docker you can run it in a container and even access it on your phone through an admin gui. If you need help on that get my email from my profile and I'll happily share my details.
My kids 8,10,12 know how to use the command line. I'm really proud of them.
FWIW this is what I recommend to adults wanting to get into the industry as well, I would just usually direct them from there towards automation, containerisation etc. For kids I would point out that they could host other things instead of WordPress, or even write their own..
Zorin has some built in features to support Windows software pretty easily I understand, but I'm not sure if that's through wine or a VM or what.
You can test them out in your browser thru the website below and see if it fits what you're looking for.
Before investing time you might also get a several distros on live USB sticks, boot each one up with the kid and parent, and see which one they like best before you install it. Make the kid part of the process.
Depending on the age of the child, make the computer discoverable. The full app store might be too much for younger children (mummy what's a flatpak?) But you might preload a "basic" and an "intermediate" app, eg Minecraft and scratch and then a (simple!!) Python IDE. And put them in discoverable, kid friendly places on the start menu.
Games. Lots of games. Both for their fun value and for teaching the motor skills of mouse and keyboard. Curiosity apps like Google earth.
For older kids, compatibility with their friends is important so make sure that things like LibreOffice, chat etc Just Work. No 13 year old wants to be the Odd Kid with the Bizarro Parent Computer. You can involve them in thinking about what it means to have choice in computing and to not just be a consumer, but they're still kids facing natural social pressures.
I could go on all day. One last point. After the thing is all set up and has been running for a few weeks, check in with the child and parent. What do they like? What do they not? And fix those issues.
My oldest now has mint on her laptop and Bazzite/W11 dual booting her desktop. This was her own choice, and she did the setups herself.
My youngest is now almost an adult, but I went through the same thing that you are doing now about 15 years ago, before the prevalence of smartphones. You have a lot more options now, especially with cheap hardware which is well supported by Linux.
* I picked up a tangerine iMac, and managed to install OS X on it. I had to install on a G4 tower first and move the disk over. This machine was not online, and it let them play games like Alphabet Express, etc, without the slings / arrows of the Internet.
* The educational thinkpad / lenovo laptops were built like tanks and supported Linux well. These were online, so I put them behind my own DNS resolver so that I could block some websites like Roblox, Discord, etc.
* Scratch was well received, but you have to watch the online interactions.
When they are older, let them install Linux and give them full control and root access. Let them break it and try to fix it -- if it's too far broken they can just reinstall.If they're not into tinkering, or not into tinkering yet, consider an immutable distribution like Kinoite, Aurora, or Bluefin. It is difficult for them to break things
Don't expect them to dive in and never leave the Linux ecosystem, an important lesson is "the right tool for the job". If they know that it is an option, they can always choose it.
I might be a bit odd in that I've been using Linux as my primary desktop since 1997, so the kids have seen it around for their entire lives.
Second, for such young age, you still need to manage the pc. So Manjaro with Plasma is my choice.
The software to install is your choice, because it really depends on what they will do, but Minecraft and other Minecraf-clones is a must and LibreOffice for their works.
Install LibreWolf with uBlock Origin, for their default browser. Keep Pi-Hole as the default DNS server and if you or them don't have one, buy a Raspberry PI and install one. That is a critical step. Best 70 bucks you will ever spend.
So maybe pick something with the realization that they may stick with it for decades. :)
I also kept Windows on dual boot so I could play UT99 with friends. The social aspect is also important. My son is comfortable using our Debian machines, but also has Windows on his primary desktop so he can play Roblox and Minecraft Bedrock with school friends. I wouldn't want him to lose that.
I learned Linux when I was like 13 or 14 and not because my father told me. He didn't know much about computers in early 2000/late 90ties.
The curiosity, the desire to learn, the need to set up my own isp, the need to start to make money, the curiosity of how html, php and other stuff worked let me to Linux.
Teach them how to be curious and feed that curiosity, the rest will happen.
And if they choose Mac over Linux, just get of their way, otherwise they will rebel.
1. It's in the living room next to an SNES and an N64.
2. I showed her vscode, did a short HTML tutorial, and printed out some HTML cheat sheet.
3. Some modest games.
4. No YouTube or social.
Most of the buzzwords are not important (power, freedom) but I want something "unrefined". That is, a little bit of the 1980s, 90s "neat creative toy" experience but nothing with a Recommender Engine. No "digital crack".
As an entertainment product, it's definitely 100% inferior to modern software, but you actually don't want it to "win" a contest against:
1. yourself
2. other children
3. healthy activities
Recommenders and modern games are really strong. Do not invite strong, self-interested parties to compete for your child's time and life against yourself, their siblings, their friends, their neighborhood and their own developing bodies.
Common pattern: Wake up; play one cup of Mario Kart 64; leave it behind and go outside for ten hours. Or play it together. A cute little nice thing in its little proper place.
Just take it slow, I pushed the console a little too hard on my 13 year old. He now refers to it as the “black box of despair” hah.
So, I would suggest: try to get a throwaway computer, give the kid it and an USB with Linux and let them alone. Do not force anything, just give them the tools and a gentle push. Let curiosity take the wheel and be prepared to answer a lot of questions.
turning things on their head, i got started myself with coherent floppies borrowed from a friend and then later slackware linux downloaded off some ftp site i read about on usenet.
i have vague memories of downloading mint for the atari st and maybe something about it's c compiler, but not much.
> Linux with free and open software is the goal and focus.
Notice the goal and focus has nothing to do with the kids and their learning and enrichment.
Kids commonly enjoy drawing, so it's likely a good idea to install Krita, which I'm not so sure is in the repos and might require a bit of imposition of hands.
Libreoffice will be installed by default, one might want to switch it out for something else for whatever reason.
Contrast this with a modern experience. There are hundreds of inscrutable processes running, constantly talking to the network, to disk, doing who-knows-what. What does "software" mean on a modern machine? Software runs the gamut from a command line one-shot tool, to an invisible daemon, to a desktop app with a window, or multiple windows, to something hosted in a browser, to something hosted by something hosted in a browser. How can you build a clear mental model amidst so much noise, clutter and (both UI and runtime) heterogeneity?
In the same why "phylogeny recapitulates ontogeny" I'd argue the correct computer for a kid is a single process box with either hard-coded programs or a floppy-like experience (e.g. SD card "floppies). Given all of this, the perfect kids computer system is an HDMI TV dongle that runs an Apple IIe emulator, Logo, and a handful of retro games, and an SD card slot for other programs (prepped by the parent). No wifi or internet, bluetooth for connecting a keyboard, and no mouse.
There are have been so many benefits. He's been a great touch typer from a young age (compared to his peers especially, who mostly used phones). I mean, being on linux exposes you to using the command line, which makes you _want_ to hack, so he's learned about network. You also avoid the barrage of ads that microsoft is currently assaulting the rest of the world with in their start menu.
I have seen older children cry that they dont have an iPhone or they dont have the latest iPhone, or in a different region, that they dont have Android and of course the latest Android
These were older than 7 to be sure, but not sure when it starts.
you can set your kid up to be independent and a FOSS influencer but I dont think that always works.
Now he has a mostly-airgapped Thinkpad (with music, kiwix, music-experimantation stuff, programming things, and onlyoffice), and doesn't know the ipad's passcode.
The laptop has nftables set up so that only an ssh connection to my laptop works, which I use to update it, add content, and occasionally unblock it, when necessary.
I would look for things that fit the child's interests rather than deciding a "mini-curriculum" in advance.
Assist them with installing the interesting programs, from Inkscape to Celestia to Geany and Python.
But first you’ll have to decide what to do about youtube. Most kids won’t do anything else once they find it. Keep them away from adults as well. Probably no internet at first.
Re: software setup, curriculum etc.. there are so many resources that target the Raspberry Pi that you can choose something that the child finds interesting.
You can do a desktop computer build if/when they outgrow the Raspberry Pi.
[1] https://www.uugear.com/product/raspikey-plug-and-play-emmc-m...
If you want an alternative to Windows, then a Chromebook might be a good choice since this is what they will probably be using at school, and there are plenty of free online tools for learning to program, doing 3-D modelling, etc if they are really into it.
I honestly don't know if they've ever touched a PC or Mac, (except for the ones we, as parents, have.) They learn how to use them in school.
If they're interested in geeky stuff, I'll show them how to use them. Otherwise, it's important to recognize that "Linux" is often a combination of politics and hobby.
Linux has a really steep learning curve for people who have only learned Windows at school or are used to the touch-based interface Chromebooks and smartphones/tablets provide. It can certainly be overwhelming for a kid who just wants to work on a school project or game with friends, so you'll need to maintain a delicate balance if you try to make this work.
If I was considering this for my kids, I'd try to give them something as friendly as possible. No terminals or writing code at all, unless they actually get interested and start asking you about how the computer works. Sit down together and teach them how to responsibly use the internet, protect their privacy and find free software.
Try to make the experience interactive and let them know that they can customize it however they want and help them do so. I always found Windows and macOS very limiting in that sense as a child and my only options were downloading sketchy apps or writing my own terrible scripts (I remember trying to animate my wallpaper on Windows with Python...).
It's also very important to ensure they're covered for schoolwork and any gaming needs. I won't recommend Libreoffice here, Office online or in a VM will be a much better experience and Proton is amazing at gaming on Linux these days (although if you've selected low-end hardware it may be worth considering a dedicated game console).
I generally think most people will appreciate Linux if they give it a try. People just tend to be negative because they've been taught to stay inside the closed ecosystem of big OS vendors and closed, user-hostile software. Once you experience freedom, there's no going back!
Good luck with your project!
EDIT: An important downside I forgot to mention is that there is practically no way to set screen-time or app limits, or block certain websites which is something important to have at least in the beginning when teaching responsible computer use. For those who have tried this, what's your approach?
He recently learned there are other computers running Windows, which he hates because of the ads.