I feel like I've wasted the better part of my twenties trying to be a professional software engineer and founding two companies. Fortunately I have some money to show for it and I learned a lot, but at this point it seems I'm functionally unemployable / have skills that just don't make the cut anymore.
Building with AI is incredible, but when I get interviews I just flat out can't pass tech screens anymore. I've gotten lucky with a few "forward deployed" roles but for whatever reason, never get a callback after the final round.
I really enjoy software, but I need to actually figure something out that's a real career (earns more than $150k per annum). I'm sort of freaking out given that all this time and money I spent to become an engineer appears to be going to waste. It's been about four months and the prospects just aren't showing up like they used to.
Also, I have zero interest in 996 startup culture. How on earth it became impossible as an american to get a job in software where you make a decent salary and work 50hr weeks is sort of beyond my comprehension as someone in Gen Z.
Curious for advice or if anyone else has made the leap outside of tech. I fear for my mental health and stability if I don't figure something out soon. I flat out just don't know where I want to go next, even applying to sales roles has fallen flat.
I have good contacts for law school, but the notion of burning $200k on the chance that law is still a viable career with AI seems like an even worse decision than logic I applied in my 20s.
Cheers.
Networking seems to be the only way to get past the HR filters.
Check out data fields. I’m in data analytics, no I don’t make 150k, but it’s a good living and I consider it real. I do a lot of good and save government a lot of money with my tech skills.
What is your depth of knowledge in? You say software?
Law would be an risk idea if you don't love it with all your heart, even people who love law hate it by the end of law school.
Otherwise it might make sense to move out of the bay area to where there are lower costs of living and then lower your salary expectations to match.
Bear in mind that being a good corporate drone or middle manager requires different soft skills and attitude than being the CEO of your own company. You have to march to someone else's drum which can be hard.
You need to prove to yourself and others that you can be a regular developer now, you're in a position where you might need to sacrifice salary, job description and/or working conditions to get a foot back on the ladder.
Beyond salary, the culture of working hours in the bay area might be a bad fit for you. If you're looking for a boring (in a good way) salaryman programmer role you might need to see where those sort of companies are centred.
Note, I live and work outside the US so I can't give specific US advice.
I wish you all the best in this current situation and hope, things will fall in place quite soon.
I'm really torn, TBH. Plenty of people do, indeed, get on with F/MAANG/whatever out of college and make that 150. Plenty don't. It's jut bleh
Seems like the interview pipeline is geared towards new grads and junior engineers and penalize senior and staff. At what point do I stop having to do these silly coding interviews?! At what point does my resume and 20 yrs of experience speak for itself? So called senior/staff interview loops are a joke with toy system design questions. What do you really learn asking “design twitter” 100 times?
The only answer I can come up with is networking. Basically, don’t bother interviewing. 4 of my last 5 jobs were via networking—no interviews.
I derive a great deal of personal satisfaction from working in these fields, but given your relatively high salary prerequisites, they'd likely be nonstarters for you.
It's honestly a bit difficult to give any concrete advice without additional specifics into your situation:
- Do you have a formal degree in computer science or an adjacent field?
- Is your resume only populated with your startup businesses?
- Have you worked for an existing company in a tech-related role for at least two years?
etc.
Good luck with your search!
And if you're gunning for senior positions, you'll have to suffer the system designs as well.
Keep practicing and don't let a single day slip by without training. If you need a change of pace, code something on the side that's genuinely fun and zero stakes. It will all come together eventually.
Or found another company then you can make your own rules.
> law school
Given how rapidly the current administration is tearing up the legislative rule book and AI excelling at big chunks of it, law is not a space I'd want to be in
What's the story here?
> Fortunately I have some money to show for it
Are you in a rush to get back to work?
You are arrogant and entitled. You are not as great as you think you are. If you were, you would have what you want. But you don't. And even if you were great, you (or anyone for that matter) shouldn't be arrogant or entitled. It's a terrible way to live. Insulting those who are trying to help you by calling their advice "boomer cope" is beyond asinine and just the topping on the cake.
Your problem is that you think you deserve something. You don't. In the strictest sense what you "deserve" is exactly what you have right now, which is nothing. "Deserve" is meaningless word anyway. As if there is some universal objective truth about what the state of your life "should" be.
If you want to get out of this rut, humble yourself, get whatever software job you can get (assuming you want to stay in this industry), and slowly work your way up over the coming decades. That's reality.
It's also clear that you have no true sense of ownership or responsibility. You have a victim mindset. It oozes out of everything you say. Some examples:
Q: "Why can you not pass tech screens? You mean leetcode questions?"
> I don't really know, none of this was a problem when I got my last job in tech (as a non-founder).
Who cares what the state of the world was when you got your last job? Clearly you're not cutting it today. Does living in the glory days of your past put food on your table now?
> My best guess is they thought my skills weren't advanced enough for my age or found it weird I was bald.
No hiring manager cares that you're bald. That's just you blaming them for your lack of skills.
> I'm legitimately going to just move to another country if one more boomer tells me I just have to "wait for the stars to align" one more time.
You won't have to wait until another "boomer" tells you that (how do you even know who is a boomer, and why does it matter if they are?). Your current crappy attitude will all but ensure you will fail and be forced into such a situation.
All that aside, I hope you fix your attitude and improve your life. Good luck.
It is easier to get a job when you have one already. You don't have to solve all the problems at once.
This sounds like the issue to me? You’re getting opps but you’re biffing the tech screen. Can you just slam leet code for 2 months and then ace the screen or is it something else?
Being a freelancer was never my intention, but it's where I ended up, and right now I'm very thankful for it. I don't make much money, but I can say that I make my living as a software developer. I have clients who think I'm their golden goose, and I ended up landing an internship at Akamai, yet I still feel completely un-hirable in the traditional sense, but I also feel like once the tide does turn, I'm in a much better position to market myself, and get a real job if I desire.
I know this sucks, but man, what I'd give to be in that position in my 20's instead of my late 30's.
"make a decent salary and work 50hr weeks"
You sound incredibly privileged and entitled. I this just a ragebait post?
As far as leaping out, yeah there's a ton of opportunity while keeping a "tech" base: CCTV Installer (Commercial IP Security Cams), VoIP (Business Phone Systems), POS (Point of Sale Restaurant and Retail).
Law school is expensive and I don't think there is a cheap option in the bay area (even the state school is expensive but in other locations, it can be cheaper), but they do give out scholarships.
I wouldn't choose law school unless you think you could do well in the actual legal career environment. I don't know what you mean by "good contacts for law school," but if that means you know people in the field, I would suggest talking to them about it. Get as much information you can get.
Any worries that law is not going to be a viable career with AI seems farfetched by me, particularly in litigation.
Externally ...
1) It's actually a shit job market.
2) Your startup experiences don't really help signal your skillset as an employee. There's a sorta "founder tax" you're paying.
3) COVID, remote work, and new supplies of CS grads have changed the labour dynamics to depress wages. The top 20% may be doing ok, but the bottom 80% are getting diluted.
If I were you I'd consider a few things:
- Really think about what's a good/meaningful life to you. Volunteer/do something useful for other people (ex. a non-profit) to build up confidence again.
- Recognize your technical skillset may not be as "senior" as you think, since you had to expend valuable time learning other skills as an entrepreneur. It might mean more learning, building, leetcode grinding, interview prep, etc, before you can land the role. Concurrently, you can think about how to better communicate all the other useful things you've learned at a startup.
- If you enjoyed the startup experience, but concerned about the grind, then you don't have to build high growth businesses that require the 996 mentality. Boostrapping and organically growing a niche product may be more aligned with your skillset/goals.
2. Focus on making your job acquisition process a full time job and treat it as a different skill set entirely. For example, applying for jobs doesn’t cut it in today’s market. You need to be reaching out to real live people with messages that offer value. Keep bothering them if they don’t answer, on average it takes 8 contacts to get a response from a cold contact.
2. If you can’t pass tech screens, study tech screens. Put the work in. There’s no excuse for you not passing them.
3. Consider a different role than software engineering. Since you’re a founder, and you’ve started companies, maybe you are a better fit for something else.
4. Expand your reach outside of the Bay Area tech industry. Everyone has software engineers. Look at other industries that aren’t explicitly tech companies. Healthcare comes to mind.
5. Don’t get a law degree. You want to work fewer hours, not more.
6. Get out of the Bay Area. Software engineers don’t work 50 hour weeks in the Midwest. California work culture is toxic, and you’ll get your own house for the price of a VCR in the Midwest.
7. Reset your salary expectations (see also #6). The median income of the USA is so much lower than $150k.
I definitely miss the paychecks that come with tech jobs, though.
If you go for lower paying jobs you will be treated better and have much better results without all that h1b soft slavery culture and exploitation, but alas you’ll never be able to live like a prop13’d boomer homeowner on such a salary unless you leave this failed state and move somewhere with enough political diversity to ensure a functional government. You can’t surf in Denver so you’ll have to make a hard choice or pick up a new hobby like snowboarding.
Have you considered stopping using LLMs? They really do seem to destroy some peoples’ ability to program in a short period of time.