But recently in a private chat someone said "these days all universities (at least in Australia) are a total scam and employers are starting to feel the same --- the advent of gen ai has seen a lot of companies here very skeptical of any student who didn't graduate before 2020 due to cheating and the like."
So I'm now asking around. One friend responded with: "A friend of a friend is doing a computer science bachelor's in Hungary. Same place I did mine. But the easier version. And he doesn't know anything, everybody just cheats on everything."
Of course, this is anecdata. But I've never heard him be so strongly opinionated about university.
So I'm simply asking the question to see if there's nuance to this discussion or whether this is becoming the new normal rapidly. Or perhaps I'm just in a bubble.
I'm open to your experiences about this and what you all know.
Learn because you want to know more, do more, and acquire more skills in research and critical thought. Apply everything you learn to your life in order to direct it better and adapt to changes over time. Do that learning in school... or not. Whatever is best for you, personally.
More specific to your question, if other people are short-changing themselves by abusing AI, that has nothing to do with you individually. And if hiring managers cannot see that, would you want to work for them anyway?
For the reasons I went, primarily to learn for its own sake and to meet other likeminded, curious, and smart people (I didn’t grow up somewhere that was easy), university is not only credible but still seems like by far the best option for most young people. I’m not sure that’s as obviously true for potential mature students, though.
[0] I’m convinced that anyone who’s done well enough to have (or have had) the option of going to university can have a successful career as long as they’re motivated and willing to go where the work is
There are useless programmers, most are ok, and some great. This is true of students and lecturers. A job or education provides a platform for a person. What a person does with this opportunity is up to every individual.
- Working with government projects/grants, the moment R&D mentioned - you notice that master degree is requirement for contract
- in any job (especially in public), when climbing ladder without degree you can quickly be disadvantaged or straight up fired
- It worth maybe 2/3 times (if you final projects and marks are top notch), then your cv matter more.
I run a program for students as a replacement for university, so I'm a bit biased when it comes to this discussion. It's useful to analyze both what a student want out of a degree and how a degree is "consumed" by another party (ex. an employer).
1. University degrees are still the "gold standard" in socially accepted proof-of-education. I think this is mostly due to social momentum. A few years of a "bad batch", ex. due to rampant cheating etc, will not change this. When I talk to other hiring managers, it's a bit of mixed bag. Some sorta understand where the students are coming from, as they also think that a lot of courses etc are arbitrary. Others are more concerned about the ethics of cheating, and the implications on a student's character, rather than the education outcomes ("I can work with inexperience, I can't tolerate lying").
2. If you're planning to pursue a heavily regulated profession, like medicine, you most likely need a degree.
3. As others pointed out, the university criteria now more closely resembles a toll someone must pay to access higher-paying jobs. Ie. it's less about education than gatekeeping. Having it doesn't make you qualified. Not having it disqualifies you in many people's eyes. I think this is partially driving a lot of the cheating. Students sense the disconnect from the university program (and schooling in general) vs real skills. It's just another hoop they have to jump through so they will choose the path of least resistance. For many parents, it's a sort of capstone project for a parenting job well-done. And that adds more to the complexity.
4. How you take advantage of your university experience matters. I wouldn't count on the university for a durable education, ie. actually teaching you things that will make you successful. You need to get that elsewhere (thus the emphasis on work experience). But the social momentum is important, as universities are social centers for young adults, so you may get socially isolated if you don't go. In this case, the value is in the network, not so much the programs etc.
The university experience, despite it's flaws, is still the status quo and definitely the safer "bet". Unless a person have clear understanding of why they shouldn't go, they should probably still go.
When people drop out, the ones with a complete degree will be the outliers. It hasn't been about what you learn, uni's main purpose is a form of certification. You can cheat in every other kind of certification too.
Assignments aside, universities at least certify that you have spent time with peers in the same field, both students and professors. Unless you took an online one.