Decided I no longer want to be a SWE – what next?

Being a SWE doesn't mean you have to be involved in the startup grinder. I work for a privately owned company, and while my TC would be way better working for a FAANG or dealing with the startup world, there's no way I would mentally survive working in either of those environments for the 12 years I've done where I am now.

I don't work on glamorous projects; most of what I make will never be seen outside of my company, even. But I've got a child, got to move back to the rural town I was born in after I inherited my late grandfather's house (since I've been WFH my 12+ years), and I can genuinely say I enjoy my work most days.

If it's the actual job you hated I'd tell you to go back to school for something else or get into a trade, but it sounds more like you're just tired of the culture surrounding the startup and big tech scene. Go find work from companies that aren't "tech companies", you're less likely to run into leetcode interviews, shitty work/life balance, and the constant fear of your employer folding any morning.

That breach of privacy from the recruiter sounds extremely frustrating. but i'd suggest still looking for paid SWE work in the short term, so you have a way to pay the bills and save some money, until you figure out what your next plan is.

If you've founded multiple companies previously, can you reach out to your network and see if there's a former client / colleague you could help with consulting or contract work, using your skills and some of your existing domain specific knowledge?

SWE is not my calling. I never really wanted to be a SWE, and don't have a degree, but things just kind of fell into my lap during the pandemic when i was desperate and short on options, so here i am. I had several jobs previously that i enjoyed quite a bit more but paid barely enough to get by, even living in practically-free flyover nowheres.

My experience is very different than yours. I've never worked for a proper tech company, nor a startup. I haven't been asked a ton of questions about how I engage with software outside of work in interviews, and none of my live coding interviews have been leetcode or memorization.

For me SWE is a nice stable pleasant 9-5 job, not the best job I've had, not the worst, but unquestionably the biggest responsibility-to-income ratio i can possibly imagine. I do mostly pleasant and unstressful work 40 hours a week and have enough money to do most anything i want. $140k goes a looooong way here in Chicago.

I think the burnout you're feeling is probably more tied to SF/big tech/startup culture than it is SWE as a career. I mean don't get me wrong I'm not certain i see myself being happy doing this forever either, but my "doing tech at non-tech or tech adjacent companies" experience sounds so drastically different than yours that i think you should give it a shot before completely changing careers. I can't speak to SF but i do at least see lots of these kinds of jobs out of New York when I'm browsing job listings. Chicago has lots of these kinds of jobs in theory but the market isn't great this second (though it probably isn't anywhere, is it?). Other major cities like Philadelphia, Seattle, hell even LA would save you money over SF and NY if that's a concern.

30 is still really young. Plenty of time to figure out how you want to live still. Clout and money don't really mean much but living comfortably with time and capital to do things you like, do.

Hmm.

1. Get a job that pays the bills for starters, doesn't have to be fancy or pay much, just enough that you don't become homeless.

2. Do something in your spare time that you're interested, just for fun, with no expectations or even plans of making money from it.

3. You will profit in a way you couldn't possibly plan or predict. Or maybe not. But probably. Either way, you're not homeless or starving.

All I can say is you are not alone. When I read this, almost all you say resonates with me - and there is no privacy, especially in startups. I learnt it the hard way too.

Please don't think you are not good enough. The interviewing process is just ridiculous and illogical (for an industry that deals with logic all the time!).

I don't have any answers - since I am also in the current state. And I also found out that no one has any answers - everyone is probably lost in some way or another.

Take some time off if you can. And if you have the luxury, don't think about anything else for a while.

Many SWEs suffer from imposter syndrome. If you have been in the industry for any length of time, you know plenty of tech people who have 'made it big'; so it is easy to feel inadequate if you haven't.

Some of those who are very successful are truly talented and deserve everything they got; but some were just lucky. It's not blind luck like winning the lottery, but rather being at the right place at the right time.

You may have much more talent than you give yourself credit for.

> doing this without pay

No, you got paid in vibes.

Never. Accept. Vibes.

Vibes are for losers. Refuse to be treated like a loser.

Reject vibes; demand money.

It is always a mistake to do un-paid work for an organization that wants turn a profit from your work. They will always suck you dry, as if you are a fire hydrant and they are a blackhole.

> Planning on letting him know I'm out near the end of this week.

Stand up for yourself. Stop working immediately and tell them that you won't work for free any more. If they want further work, they should start paying immediately. And consider demanding they pay for work already done.

Your time is valuable; you can't get any of it back. Only genuinely charitable organizations and in-need individuals should ever get free work; everyone else must pay for work.

> Co-founder didn't understand why I wasn't interested working without salary anymore.

This is methhead logic on his part. Again, reject vibes; demand money. Methheads live on vibes, especially the vibes from stimulants.

> most of my friends make way more money than me or have families

Again, reject vibes. You see their vibes, but are you so sure that they are actually doing well overall? They could be in debt up to their eye-balls; they could have terrible family situations; they could be totally burned-out from working 80-hour weeks. A lot of people put out good vibes to try to make themselves feel better about a bad situation; vibes can't fix a broken home, a terrible job, or a bad financial decisions.

A lot of people have started families/careers later in life. Now is the time to figure out why you want money/family/whatever. Working to feed your family is rewarding; working just to work is self-harm. Starting a family in order to shower them with love is rewarding; starting a family because it's a milestone is egotistical.

> Anyone else pivot away from tech and still make half-decent income?

Reject vibes; find a boring job. Research the sort of jobs that nobody wants to work, but which pay well. Those jobe have no vibes to offer, so they attract few candidates. A SWE can find good work doing boring jobs, because SWEs focus on details; and details are the antidote to vibes.

SF startups seem like a fucking nightmare. I live in a second-tier city and there's lots of six-figure, 9-5 software dev roles that are nowhere near as competitive. Consider relocating somewhere with a lower CoL and more sane culture?

Consider become an auditor who audits the sort of work you no longer wish to perform. You’re uniquely equipped to audit it, whether that lies in forensic, privacy, security, financial, compliance auditing. And your cynicism with the field will help temper your natural bias as ex-SWE to give excess credence to SWE claims.

I saw things beginning to rapidly deteriorate years ago, checked out, and focused on being able to live on very little. I've got land, 10-20 years worth of savings, and a small shack. I think I'm just going to monetize side projects for the next few years and maybe try the truck farming thing.

Formal collaboration depends on a culture that's more or less dead now. I wouldn't bet my future on it getting sorted out.

One thing that gets lost in spaces like this is that there are plenty of essentially non "tech" companies that have large technical aspects to their core business but still lie outside the realm of what would traditionally be considered a pure "tech" company, such as most tech startups would be. One area that immediately comes to mind from past experience is banking/finance/insurance and ecommerce. I don't think the roles or the paybands are as flashy, but they can be extraordinarily stable and more of a "normal" work experience than your typical 'up and coming' startup. I've only had one small startup experience so far and I would consider all my other roles at non-tech companies much more stable and enjoyable than that one was, which wanted me to sell my soul for a very speculative goal, for what now I would consider pennies for the effort spent.

Why not try be a swe somewhere besides SF?

You could start a business. Not a startup and not necessarily even a software business, although your experience would make it easier to hire programmers. Understanding how the business end of the business works is valuable.

You could go into management.

You could do SW work in a non-technical field. Manufacturing is making a resurgence.

At 30, you're still young!

If I was starting today, rather than an electrical engineering degree, I'd choose a trade: probably electrician, or plumber.

I know a few kids working for themselves in these trades and they are in unceasing demand.

You could pivot into something related to tech that doesn't involve coding - sales, technical writing, etc.

I feel you. That’s not easy and you have every motive to be frustrated. Tech interviews nowdays are really strange, but also seems that you have burnout. Take a bit of therapy it helped me a lot

Not all SWE jobs have the same culture and there's work outside of silicon valley. That said, it sounds like you've decided that this isn't for you anymore so what is? What's something that makes you excited or you find yourself thinking about a lot. There's a lot of other opportunities out there, and you should feel proud of the experiences you had and mistakes you made. Don't worry about what others think and go find another chapter to start. (That said, you may need to accept a lower salary for a while.)

What minimum income do you need to feel safety in the next 6 months?

I want to pivot to arts and philosophy, but these are areas with guaranteed hardship when it comes to money.

My luck is that there's still a lot that interests me in tech, like datalakes, data intensive systems, OTP and webdev with elixir and phoenix, compilers and micro vms...

For me it's an easy answer, I can use tech to finance my true purpose. I'm also lucky enough to live in a country where 66k USD affords me a very comfortable life.

For you there seems to be something more fundamental missing. You seem to be in the start of a journey inwards to understand what's your purpose, what could fill the Ikigai for you.

If you have money, take a break, travel, go meet people, broad your possibilities. The world isn't just SWE, specially silicon valley cutthroat morally-bankrupt SWE. If you immerse yourself in the world out there there'll be no guarantee you'll find what you want and there is a good chance you'll suffer, but it's likely you'll find something, and that I think makes it all worth it.

I mean, I would say least try working for a salaried programming job in a stable company. It's still an incredibly well paying career for the level of responsibility & seniority. I'm paid almost as much as an MP and I'm on the bottom rung of my company with virtually no responsibility.

I think if you go and get a "normal" job like being an electrician you'd be in for a shock about the level of work and relatively low pay compared to programming.

On the other hand, I wouldn't keep doing it if you hate it.

> This was effectively the most unprofessional breach of privacy I've ever experienced and as a result I think I'm done working in software (don't even ask me my opinion of SF).

Huh? Power to you, and that is awful behavior, but this sounds strange. Why let one person decide your career for you?