HACKER Q&A
📣 animal_spirits

What is the most Pythonic spoken language?


People here commonly say Python is one of the easiest languages to pick up quickly, and be able to efficiently take an idea in your head to a suitable prototype program.

My question to you: Is there a Python equivalent spoken language? For some time now I have been thinking about the idea that every philosophical problem is inherently a linguistics problem, as two people must use words to define the ideas in their heads, and words are the medium in which ideas propagate. So, is there a spoken language where two people who understand it can efficiently and accurately translate the ideas in their head to each other? Or is spoken language just too complicated for us to understand in fully?


  👤 anditherobot Accepted Answer ✓
Haitian Creole ---------------- If French is Java, Haitian Creole is Kotlin.

The language has a very consistent grammar, all the conjugations are predictable

While most of its words are of French origin, Its syntax is a little different: La Table = Tab la. Le téléphone = Telefòn lan. J'ai envi de manger = mwen anvi manje

It's written phonetically. No surprises when it comes to pronunciation.

It's modern. It's one of the youngest languages in the world.

The language emerged from contact between French settlers and enslaved Africans during the Atlantic slave trade in the French colony of Saint-Domingue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Creole


👤 theonemind
If you have words with absolutely precise meaning, you have a branch of math, pure or applied. That happens all of the time. Philosophy is a big, weird fuzzy field because when the ideas get precise enough, they start to get regarded as math or science, and no longer the domain of philosophy. Likewise, sufficiently precise language would simply get reclassified as math, always leaving language "fuzzy" right by fuzzy philosophy.

Probably suffering from the blub paradox, but English seems pretty good for conveying ideas. It has a lot of unfortunate spelling and some weird conjugations, but the basic sentence has a subject, object, and verb, and then, it rather promiscuously imports words, which means we have a word for everything, and if we don't, we'll just take it from any language that does, no problem. This ideal language must have a large, precise vocabulary, like English (though you can argue the "precise" bit). English can really cut through to a point, in my opinion.


👤 ouid
I would say English. No one thinks its a beautiful language, but everyone can speak it, and there's a whole bunch of people that can only speak it.

👤 cambalache
I dont know. But I will tell you that my native language (Spanish) is probably C++. Created as a supposed improvement to a venerable ancestor, it started to incorporate stuff from other languages so it became a veritable behemoth that everybody uses at their own particular style. People complain about it and say its days are counted, but yet here it is , as strongest as ever.

👤 raidicy
I can't really answer this but suggest perhaps some con lang's. Toki pona is a lang with only 200ish words meant for simple effective communication. And Lojban is a language meant to have unambiguousl grammar. The philosophy of the lang tests this one linguistics theory I cannot recall but it's a name of a man, and for the language to be logically understood. Unfortunately there are syntactic variations to phrases so there's no "pythonic" why to saying something (assuming pythonic means that there's one correct way to do something)

👤 danblick
John McWhorter is a well-known linguist who talks about things like comparative linguistics. He's said in the past that (colloquial) Indonesian is one of the most streamlined languages around. (But really English is becoming the world's international language.)

One of the topics in McWhorter's research is about how languages become streamlined when they are learned by adults as a second language. English, Mandarin, and Swahili all show evidence of this (for English, it seems related to the Vikings).

Related post:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/06/co...

For people interested in human languages (or people who don't yet know they're interested in human languages), you might enjoy the courses he's done for Great Courses (paid but worth it, available on ~Amazon):

(1) The Story of Language: covers the topic of language evolution; how languages change over time, how new words are introduced, how languages mix (due to e.g. invasions), pidgins/creoles

(2) Language Families of the World: a survey of what languages currently exist, features of languages in different families


👤 f_allwein
Possibly an artificial language like Esperanto, although that never really took off.

👤 etherio
I'm not sure for the answer to this one, but on this subject, Turkish definitely has some interesting attributes.

It's an agglutinative [0] language which basically means instead of being separated morphemes are "concatenated" together. For example (from the wiki page):

> the word evlerinizden, or "from your houses", consists of the morphemes ev-ler-iniz-den, literally translated morpheme-by-morpheme as house-plural-your-from.

It also has a simple subject-object verb structure without a grammatical gender.

I find it quite simple to wrap your head around, in the same way python is the go-to language to learn programming, I think it's pretty easy for beginners :).

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agglutination


👤 t312227
preface: i'm no linguist, so ...

i think this heavily depends on your mother-tongue / native-language(s) ...

there are often similarities between languages - for example its easy for an italian speaking person to learn spanish and vice-verca ...

but i think its definitly not easy for a non-european language person to learn lets say english or any other european language.

other example: as a german native speaker there are several similar languages - which sometimes are just more of a "slang", or historically missing sound-shifts ... from the south german/austrian "bavarian german", swiz-german to languages like dutch or the belgian language similar to dutch - flemisch? ...


👤 idoh
That’s tough, it is very hard to compare a spoken language where everything is ambiguous to a programming language, where (almost) everything is unambiguous.

As an example, in my family, there is no general agreement as to how many “holes” a straw has, or a spoon, or a cup, or a donut. If we can’t even precisly define what a hole is, then basically everything we say is ambiguous.


👤 thelastname
German, grammar is extremely regular, sometimes it sounds strange "baletttanzerin". Polish would be Perl5 - TIMTOWTDI grammar is extremely flexible, that even the experts have trouble understanding perfectly correct sentences. English would be js, seems regular but it is not. But that's just my (eastern) eurocentric perspective.

👤 conception
You may be interested in looking at Korean. It was designed by one of their emperors and would honestly take you about two hours to learn. You could then read any Korean printed word.

Mind you, you wouldn’t know what it means but you could read and badly pronounce it.

The rest of the language and pronunciation isn’t super easy for western speakers but reading is literally than a day.


👤 misterbrian
Mandarin, because the grammar is very easy, the number of sounds is small (compare to built-ins), it is standardized and taught everywhere despite there being other dialects, and the rest of the world speaks English (Java)

👤 kalium-xyz
Logic is a simple but seemingly universal subset of most languages. Everyone seems to be able to agree on things such as true and false and hold meanings of these words in the context of logic that mean the same. Not sure about your title question but consider that maths can be understood the same by many people and recreated by anyone from scratch, perhaps the most pythonic would be logic in spoken english.

👤 arthev
The most Pythonic spoken language is English, because Monty Python was British.

👤 sethammons
My first thought is significant white space. Christopher Walkin English must be the most pythonic :)

👤 brnt
Dutch of course. Just ask Guido.

👤 jacobwilliamroy
Arabic