HACKER Q&A
📣 desertraven

Does each individual have a social duty to better themselves?


All collective issues require individual action. Whether that action be a change in behavior (climate change) or a change in mindset (critical thinking).

I wonder if it follows that each individual has a duty to others to always develop themselves? We see this "duty" pop up in a economic or political sense - "study and get a good job"/"serve your country".

Only in religious, spiritual or philosophical texts do I see any reference to a duty to be morally/ethically better.

Why hasn't duty for individual progress and betterment become prevalent in society?


  👤 core-questions Accepted Answer ✓
Does duty make you a better consumer? Does it make you take on personal debt? Does it make you subscribe to more services? Do you increase anyone's MRR by being dutiful?

Does self development improve the bottom line? Can I sell you as many pharmaceuticals if you get into good shape? Can I sell you as many therapies if you get your mind in order? Can I sell you as many recreational substances if you have fewer things to avoid?

The incentives structure in modern society no longer instills these values because they do not produce the ideal consumer.


👤 vimax
Even if we all agree that such a duty exists, we would still need to decide what constitutes "betterment". How do we collectively decide that for a specific individual learning X betters society, but learning Y does not.

👤 consilience
No. The only social duty one has is to govern oneself and cause no harm. All else is nuance.

👤 motohagiography
Begs the question in regard to, better in the eyes of whom? There's a secular assumption in the question that doesn't apply to a majority of generally theistic people around the world.

I'd re-frame the question as, "what can one reasonably expect from an atheist?" The answer is "literally, nothing."

For anyone who doesn't find that funny, I'd say asking why should be the most interesting question of all.


👤 touisteur
Extract from Ilium, from Dan Simmons: "If you don’t know your father, Odysseus was answering in that low, calm, but fiercely firm voice of his that always seemed to carry as far as it had to, how can you know yourself? I am Odysseus, son of Laertes. My father is a king, but also a man of the soil. When I saw him last, the old man was down on his knees in the dirt, planting a tree where an old giant of a tree had finally – cut down by his hand finally – after being struck by lightning. If I do not know my father, and his father before him, and what these men were worth, what they lived for and were willing to die for, how can I know myself? Tell us again about arête, came a voice from the front row. Ada recognised the man speaking as Petyr, one of the earliest visitors. Petyr was no boy – Ada thought he was in his fourth Twenty – but his beard was already almost as full as Odysseus’. Ada didn’t think the man had left Ardis since he’d first heard Odysseus speak that second or third day, when the visitors could be counted on two hands. Arête is simply excellence and the striving for excellence in all things, said Odysseus. Arête simply means the act of offering all actions as of sacrament to excellence, of devoting one’s life to finding excellence, identifying it when it offers itself, and achieving it in your own life. A newcomer ten rows up the hill, a heavyset man who reminded Ada a bit of Daemon, laughed, and said, How can you achieve excellence in all things, Teacher? Why would you want to? It sounds terribly tiring. The heavy man looked around, sure of laughter, but the others on hill looked at him silently and then turned back to Odysseus. The Greek smiled easily – strong white teeth flashing against his tanned cheeks and short, gray beard – and said, You can’t achieve excellence in all things, my friend, but you have to try. And how could you not want to? But there are so many things to do, laughed the heavy man. One can’t practice for them all. One has to make choices and concentrate on the important things. The man squeezed the young woman next to him, obviously his companion, and she laughed loudly, but she was the only one to laugh. Yes, said Odysseus, but you insult all these actions in which you do not honour arête. Eating? Eat as if it was your last meal. Prepare the food as if there were no more food! Sacrifices to the gods? You must make each sacrifice as if the lives of your family depended upon your energy and devotion and focus. Loving? Yes, love as if it was the most important thing in the world, but make it just one in the constellation that is arête."

👤 cblconfederate
> become prevalent in society?

You mean secular society? They are still very prevalent through unwritten cultural norms everywhere. Mechanisms like the market/jobs market evolved for the same reasons. Society is progressing towards individualism thanks to technology so large-scale normative religious texts no longer appeal to people


👤 2rsf
Individual progress and betterment is not scalable for everyone all the time, many (if not most) people are close t their peek already.

I do like to some degree the Swedish society conformity, people are expected to do good for the society as a whole even if sometimes conflicts with their own personal good.


👤 hacalox
Yes. As the social animals that we are we need to devote to a certain social duty, wolves, ants, bees, penguins, you name it...any animal that lives in community look for the benefit of the colony, doing the opposite would be unnatural.

👤 aminozuur
People already better themselves for the sake of their own consciousness, family members, children and peers.

👤 markus_zhang
In a democracy I actually think we do. Otherwise how do we be knowledgeable voters?