HACKER Q&A
📣 throw4w4

Can I fork my open-source project I created under an employer?


Released an open-source project I alone created while working for a tech corporate. The project was released under the employer GitHub account with an MIT license. Am I legally allowed to fork the project and use it commercially after leaving said employer? Especially given the draconic corporate contract frofeting rights of any side project to the employer during my employment.

(California law applies)


  👤 brudgers Accepted Answer ✓
You're dealing with contracts and licenses. Fishing the internet for opinions that confirm what you want to do is not going to avoid problems.

If it matters, you need to hire a lawyer. Suppose your former employer claims that you acted in bad faith when proposing the MIT license? It doesn't matter if you did or didn't. Your former employer probably has deeper pockets for hiring lawyers.

If you're looking to start a real business, paying lawyers is part of it. This won't hinge on general principles. It will hinge on specifics and the degree of good will involved.

Good luck.


👤 Buttons840
I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is:

The company owns the code but has given permission to use it as specified in the license. Fortunately, the MIT license is very permissive. You thus have their permission to do a lot. You don't have rights, you have a license.

You may have signed an employment contract that puts limitations on what you can do. I wouldn't hesitate to fork a MIT licensed project, but your other contracts with the owner of the code may complicate things.


👤 incanus77
Biting the bullet and hiring a lawyer always feels expensive, but look at it this way: would you save the amount of money it would cost ($1,000? maybe, tops?) by not having to recreate this project from scratch? Especially since you are considering using it commercially. Consider the costs involved if your commercial venture were sued or, less tangibly, called out as a illegally basing its product on someone else’s IP?

The times I‘ve had to pay substantially for legal services have usually involved investments or tax issues related to stock options. It always feels substantial, but pales in comparison to the amounts of money involved and having a reasonably certain confidence that I’m not going to “lose” any more of it.

I would suggest that you weigh the amount of time you think it would take you to recreate this project as part of your startup costs. That is money that you will “gain” by using this project.


👤 prerok
Well, I am not a lawyer but the situation seems pretty clear. You are not the original owner but you can still use the code under the MIT license, simply meaning that you have to adhere to its license. Given that MIT license is so permissive it basically just means that you should not remove the license information.

That said, as others are trying to point out, there may be other issues that are NOT related to the code. You may have restrictions in which field you work and for what client. In this case your employer must approve your employment elsewhere and if they prevent it they must pay a significant portion of your salary until you find a suitable different employer in a different field (at least that's what my contract says but I am European so it might be different in the States).

Anyway, the simple case of using the code is allowed to you under MIT license.


👤 yoz-y
IANAL but unless there is some exception to the MIT license the ability to be able to do so is the license’s entire point.

However if I understand correctly the license only applies to code. Any assets should either be covered by a separate license or in the case there isn’t one the employer retains copyright.


👤 breakingcups
We can't answer that, consult a lawyer. We have no idea what your employment contract stipulates.

👤 andymoe
Everyone in the thread is overly paranoid. IANAL but have delt with this stuff enough to know that in general you’re fine if California law applies and it’s an MIT license - don’t violate the MIT license though. None of the non compete clauses are enforceable here and you can compete with your employer.

What you can’t likely do is induce previous colleges to quit the company and join your new company for whatever the term is that the contract says you can’t. Usually a year.

When you “fork” it don’t just hit the fork button if you are real concerned. Make sure you have your own copy of the thing and re push it.

They can sue you if they feel like it no matter what the contract says or CA law but they will probably lose on the terms you mentioned in CA. So unless you are high up and going to a direct competitor of say amazon hypothetically, you probably have nothing to worry about.

And yeah, sure, have an attorney read your contract if you really want. It’s 300-400 bucks well spent because then you have an attorney you have worked with when something real hairy comes up.


👤 duxup
I think the first question is, are you still working for that company / do you have a contract / agreement about what you can or can't do?

I'd be first concerned with what your employer might think / what if any restrictions / you agreed with.

MIT license could say one thing, but an agreement with your employer says something entirely different regarding what you can do.


👤 kazinator
If you have signed non-compete clauses in the employment contract, then you may be prevented, for the specified period, from contributing ideas related to your work to any project whatsoever anywhere, open source or proprietary. That has nothing to do with the particulars of that project.

Just because the employers approved some code to be released under the MIT, which allows for unfettered competition using the ideas embodied in that code, doesn't mean they approve the leakage of other ideas (either into that code, or any other code).

Nothing in the MIT license itself prevents you from forking the project; from that perspective, it's no different from any other individual's or organization's MIT-licensed program. It's all about what you are allowed to do according to the entirely separate contract with the employer.


👤 austincheney
> Am I legally allowed to fork the project and use it commercially after leaving said employer?

Yes, but follow these limitations:

* Always keep your fork at least as open and free as the original license. The more restrictive the open source license you choose for your fork the less willing a business entity will want to entangle themselves with it. That is why I prefer these licenses for my personal projects: AGPLv3 and CC0.

* Never violate the terms of the original license.

* Don’t compete with your employer.


👤 Foober223
MIT license = Yes you are licensed to fork and use it commercially as you see fit. Your company has licensed you to do this for the rest of your life and even beyond after you die.

A better question is whether your company is ignorant about what the MIT license means. In the real world rules and laws are not the only things that matter. You can be attacked while in compliance with all laws.


👤 WesolyKubeczek
Let me get this straight.

You wrote a piece of code while employed. The rights went automatically to the employer, because work for hire.

The employer releases the code under a permissive license on their Github. To everyone.

You don't see any exceptions in the text of the license. The license says that as long as the license and copyright notices are preserved, any rando in the world can do whatever they please with that code. "Any rando" includes but is not limited to: their competitors, the maniac next block who's out to get them, the police, ICE, Hamas terrorists, maybe even their own mothers-in-law. But they don't care, they released it. Period.

Yet somehow you (and a good half of the commenters) imply that there's maybe some unwritten clause that specifically denies the license grant to you, the freaking author of said code, specifically, even though it's not there in the license text.

The mere existence of such thought, and the number of people who subscribe to it, is sickening me to no end. I loathe their filthy minds.


👤 icedchai
The MIT license is very permissive and allows commercial use. So why wouldn't you be able to do it, since everyone else can? This is why licenses exist. Just do it. If you get a lawyer's letter over this, you can talk to one then.

👤 ClikeX
Check your contract with the employer if it states anything about your work.

Other than that, the MIT license itself should allow you to use it commercially no problem.


👤 msh
You need a lawyer for this!

👤 PestoDiRucola
Depends on your work contract and under what license the project is published.

👤 TehShrike
All these "ask a lawyer" replies are pretty annoying.

Lawyers are expensive, this question obviously doesn't warrant the trouble of finding a lawyer and paying them hundreds of dollars to read op's contract with their employer or exegete the MIT license.

If the only value you can provide is to suggest talking to a lawyer, maybe don't reply :-P