HACKER Q&A
📣 max_

How to improve my abstract thinking?


A few days ago I got into Mathematical Logic[0] and learned how to reason about problems through using various branches of mathematical ideas like proof theory, model theory e.t.c.

I found this abstract way of thinking about problems clear, & organised. "Mathematical Logic" is diffrent from the kind of Math I was taught, which was a top down approach to solving problems.

"Mathematical Logic" seems to be able to derive solutions to problems in a ground up fashion where a solution can somtimes elegantly present its self as long as you apply correct mathematical properties.

What other techniques do you hackers use to improve your abstract thinking?

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_logic


  👤 asciimov Accepted Answer ✓
Three things I recommend:

1 - Read lots of things unrelated to your field of study. Read about flowers, or art history, or music theory.

2 - Take long walks, get away from the screens and distractions. Walk some place that stimulates thought, like in nature, or in a city, or by a river. Skip the treadmill or places like malls that demand your attention. You need a place to allow your mind to wonder and to process/organize the info you read about.

3 - Dream, in a very literal sense. Do you ever remember those moments right before you fell asleep where your mind gets a bit too creative. Harness that. It has been said that Edison would take naps in a chair with heavy ball bearings in his hand. Right when he was just about to be asleep his hands naturally relaxed and dropped the bearings on the floor waking him. Quickly, he would pop up and recollect on dreams/ideas he just had. Use a similar technique to your advantage, see what randomness your mind designs.


👤 chubot
I think such mathematics is probably the best way to improve abstract thinking, so you're on the right track.

Abstract Algebra and Linear Algebra are adjacent fields with a lot of clean abstractions that I believe exercise the same muscles as programming (even if a lot of it isn't directly applicable)

Related comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23152152

i.e. basically linear algebra for engineers is not abstract. Linear algebra for mathematicians is quite abstract, e.g. a 400+ page textbook that doesn't refer to any matrices.

----

On the flip side, I think mixing abstract thinking with testing/debugging is the ideal combo for programming.

It is a skill to write useful test cases. To explore the state space efficiently.

If your code isn't grounded in real examples, then it may become overly general and not RUN run very well. It's a big danger to abstract before you have enough examples.

And probably the hardest thing that programmers do is debug OTHER people's code, as opposed to your own code.

(I guess you didn't ask about programming, but I'm sort of assuming you are programming by asking on this site :) )


👤 ipnon
Math is sort of the end of the road for abstraction. If you go any further you drive off a cliff. Take a trip to the cliff and look around for a while.

So-called mathematical maturity lets you think about many domains without considering concrete reality, and this lets you solve a different class of problems. Many foundational computer scientists are or were mathematicians for good reason. Think von Neumann, Knuth, and Turing.

There is a magnitude of difference in abstract thinking between a mathematically mature scientist and a mathematically immature one. Mathematical maturity seems to allow an easy transition from abstract theory to empirical experimentation. The converse does not appear to be as true.

My advice would be to study math directly.


👤 lvspiff
As I got further in my Mathematics degree what really made it all "click" was classes on Philosophy. The logic and approach you forms in Philosophy give a greater understanding of how mathematical proofs are formed and how to approach problem solving. A series of lectures from a Philosophy 101 course would do a lot to help with the mindset you speak of so look to any of the MIT, Stanford, etc online courses.

👤 tunesmith
For actual programming mindset, I think this a learnable skill that I'd love to see a good article on. I see a lot of intermediate programmers try to "abstract" by kitchen-sinking things, such that they end up with a perfect machine that is fairly inscrutable. And then when a change is needed, the machine falls apart and needs to be rewritten entirely.

I think abstraction is about recognizing patterns, but also about recognizing what elements are more likely to change - you don't want to abstract away the changing aspects. In that sense, it becomes similar to creating a model that depends on parameters.

Also, generally, when you are implementing a solution, that solution exists within a context of a problem. If we are simply told to implement a solution, there is a temptation to just trust that the solution will solve the problem - and sometimes we are told to trust that. But if we take a step back in abstraction and fully understand the problem ourselves, we can derive our way to the correct solution, freeing us from having to "trust" that the solution is correct.

Abstraction is just continuing from there. Understand the larger context of the problem, why it is a problem. Maybe you'll discover it isn't, and that the solution isn't actually needed. And so on, if you ask another Why you can discover that maybe another problem is more important to solve, which would make this problem irrelevant.


👤 chewxy
A dirty trick that is used all the time but goes unnoticed is concretizing abstract thoughts. The entirety of abstract maths is just that. Let me provide an example:

You've got some abstract concepts of relationships. How do you go around thinking about relationships? You make them concrete. You do so by first representing them as perhaps, two points on a piece of paper and then drawing an arrow between them. This act of representation is an act of concretizing an abstract thought.

Now you start adding rules to your concrete representation. If you are rigorous about following your rules you almost inevitably end up when Saunders MacLane ended up with Category Theory.

Another example:

Think about computers and what they do. Now try to represent them on paper. Depending on how your mind works, you might end up with something that looks like a Turing Machine or cellular automata. I've not come across anyone who thought long enough and came up with something like lambda calculus, so I suppose Church was an alien.

I didn't use any mathematical logic examples because those examples typically involve historical battles over symbols.


👤 ForHackernews
I would strongly recommend the book, "The Art and Craft of Problem Solving" - https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/isbn/0471135712/

It teaches you how to solve [math] problems, but not the kind you've seen in school. The author was a coach for the Mathematical Olympiad, and the kinds of problems he presents are creative, often requiring creative abstract lateral thinking to solve.

> Paul Zeitz studied history at Harvard and received a Ph.D. in mathematics from the University of California, Berkeley. He currently is an associate professor at the University of San Francisco. He won the USA Mathematical Olympiad (USAMO) and was a member of the first American team to participate in the International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) in 1974. Since 1985, he has composed and edited problems for several national math contests, including the USAMO and helped train several American IMO teams, most notably the 1994 "Dream Team" which, for the first time in history, achieved a perfect score. In 2003, he received the Deborah Tepper Haimo award, a national teaching award for college and university math, given by the Math Association of America.


👤 gentleman11
The most important part of abstract thinking, at least after you get the hang of it, is to then step back and make it concrete and pull at the threads to see how a theory comes apart. The more layers of abstraction you add to a situation the more opportunities for a tiny, tiny error to grow into a larger problem.

If you follow along carefully with the arguments in most classical philosophy in great detail, you notice this more and more: everything has a logical error or assumption eventually and the author typically does not catch their own error.


👤 godelski
> How to improve my abstract thinking?

The simple answer, is practice. I know this is absurd sounding, but it really is the goal here.

While I agree that you should continue down the path of Math, there's other ways to practice abstracted thinking. Pick up some kind of artistic hobby. Painting, music, poetry, story telling, etc. These are all just things that force you to think creatively. Whatever you find interesting. It probably isn't a coincidence that a vast number of high level practitioners in science were also artists in some form or another (Einstein, Newton, Feynman, etc). Abstract thinking is often associated with connecting ideas from different subjects (abstract: disassociated from any specific instance ).

Additionally, focus a lot on creating analogies for things you are studying. This has 2 major benefits (to you). #1, it helps you remember. #2, you have to abstract a concept to create an analogy. Remember that the point of an analogy isn't to be precise, but rather to create an elegant means to abstract a concept (this also is why they are good for communication). An analogy primes you to remember a concept, it doesn't describe it exactly. After all, that high precision is difficult to express and comes with a lot of assumptions.

Lastly, another pure math method: study abstract algebra.


👤 danielvz96
I agree with everyone here that maths is the frontier of abstraction but here's my two cents: delving into a humanities or social studies discipline you are interested in. I'm a self taught programmer and studied a history major. I was pretty good at history and got to learn a lot in there, but the most important skill I learned there was to manage abstract thoughts and complexity through reading and writing history essays.

I can really see a difference here with my peers in the sense that it takes them a lot more to understand each other's lines of reasoning both in verbal and written speech, and it takes them a bit more to string together complex ideas when they are too far away from what they were taught (this last bit even affects the way code is written).

I guess any discipline that cares for truthfulness or sound reasoning is useful for this. The most important thing is you enjoy studying it and it conveys complex thoughts. Some other areas besides maths and history I can think of are philosophy, political science, economy and even architecture.

Of course this is N=1, so I'd take this with a grain of salt.


👤 natalyarostova
Deliberate practice in abstraction. Forcing yourself to solve abstraction problems at the edge of your current ability. This should be hard and frustrating. If it’s not, you aren’t solving hard enough problems. Do this daily and after a year you’ll notice real progress.

👤 salty_hash
Many people have mentioned mathematics, but I'd like to add philosophy to that list. Things like logic and set theory very much overlap with philosophy (and many mathematicians can be considered philosophers). The main reason, however, is that philosophy is thinking about thinking. So if you'd like to think abstractly, while also covering a broad range of topics, philosophy is great!

Good luck.


👤 wenc
Semi on-topic mindset related note: be careful about going too far in the direction of elegant "mathematical" thinking. It's good to have certain mental techniques available to you, but real world problems require a certain suppleness/flexibility of mind and willingness to deal with exceptions that don't fit nicely into logical molds. (unless you work entirely in theoretical spaces -- then it's ok because there's no difference between theory and practice)

As someone who was for many years enamored with theory and mathematical elegance (I drank from the wells of lambda calculus and category theory in hopes of discovering something that would set me apart), I had to unlearn much of it to actually make progress in my work. When faced with new problems, I found myself trying too hard to find an elegant solution, and when I couldn't, I was paralyzed. My more resourceful colleagues on the other hand managed to ship yucky but working solutions -- which eventually got less yucky.

I learned that sometimes you have to let go of the ground-up mathematical-derivation type of thinking, and just release practical yet inelegant solutions into the wild, collect data, and then iterate. As one iterates, some solutions will tend toward elegance and others will not -- some problem spaces are just naturally messy and the solution needs to reflect that. If you've ever worked with an ERP, you'll understand how hard it is to unify competing concepts, yet that's what an ERP does with varying degrees of success. (everybody hates ERPs, but different people hate it for different reasons, and on the whole they kind of work)

Take something like Category Theory for instance: it seems like it should lead to amazing elegant solutions, but in practice it's rarely used -- and Haskellers might disagree with me here -- to design solutions (except in rare cases like LINQ). Instead, it's often deployed as a post-hoc gloss to explain solutions that have emerged by trial and error (like SQL perhaps). Its utility is often usually retrospective, i.e. either to verify correctness or to add rigor to existing solutions.

p.s. don't underestimate the value of experience + good taste in producing good thinking. People who design good abstractions are not always deeply mathematical people, but instead are people who have good intuition, like Anders Hejlsberg (architect of Turbo Pascal, Delphi, C# and Typescript), Rich Hickey of Clojure fame (who actually trained as a musician), etc. Guido van Rossum (Python) once said he probably couldn't have designed Python when he was 17 because at that age he didn't have enough experience and good taste in programming languages -- which is why most programming language designers tend to be over 35.


👤 perlgeek
If you are looking for other branches of mathematics, I'd recommend topology and group theory; both can be pretty abstract, and work quite differently than the math you tend to be taught at school.

Otherwise, I recommend learning and using "extreme" programming languages, languages that go very far off your standard language. Examples:

* Lisp: everything is a list

* TCL: everything is a string

* Haskell: everything is pure and strongly types, and you use monads and other crazy stuff

* Rust: on the extreme end of safety through zero-cost (at runtime) abstractions

* Regexes: Just how much you can do with a powerful regex engine (declarative programming)

* Prolog

Finally: studying philosophy. Philosophers have honed their abstract thinking skills to the max :-)


👤 Siira
Lesswrong.com (a starting point is readthesequences.com) is probably worth a look. It’s usually not math-heavy (though there are plenty of those as well), but about actually applying the truths we do know to think better. E.g., lots of people know the Bayes theorem (I was taught that in K12), but almost no one actually uses that insight in real life.

👤 smokeyturtle
It may not be exactly what you had in mind, but poetry and metaphor.

I was a CS major with a Creative Writing minor. I picked the minor as an escape from CS but over the course of my career as a developer it has been some of my most useful time spent. When I was trying to write about a thing in terms of another thing (or reading other people's much better attempts) I would look at the lower level similarities and mess around trying to make the metaphor as tight as possible. Along with that, both writing code and creatively are mostly about constant revision. So both interests kind of played off each other reinforcing that process.


👤 cauterize
A different take -- drugs. Especially marijuana and hallucinogens. Helped me better understand how to think about abstract computations vs the nitty gritty details like pointers. Not for everyone, but helped me.

👤 johnsonjo
Disclaimer, I am in no way affiliated with brilliant.org but am a happy user. Do yourself a favor and invest in a brilliant.org membership (there should be a trial period, but tell yourself if you like it and stick with it you’ll consider buying the lifetime membership). Then do all the Logic Courses. You could work your way through their Computer Science stuff after that. They are actually pretty fun and making mistakes is all part of the process and viewing the answers will often correct what you missed. The way it works is you are given multiple choice or fill in the blank questions usually with only one right answer. The problem statements are very exact and taking in all the relevant information is necessary. Then you kind of have to deduce for yourself the answers. Brilliant.org is literally the best investment I’ve ever made to increase my mathematical ability second only to University where I took up to discrete math. I would definitely do the trial period though because it may not be for everyone. I have mostly used it to review material that I basically should already know so I don’t know how difficult it would be for someone approaching it at a perspective of not knowing much about the subjects. But, Brilliant setups up prerequisites for each course so you should know atleast what you could work on before certain ones. Best of luck and I hope someone tries it after this recommendation because I truly do love the platform.

👤 chrisandchips
I used to struggle a lot when I first started studying mathematics seriously as part of my Computer Science degree. I could never understood how people ever came up with proofs for problems that seemed completely abstract and foreign to me. Even the very notion of proving a theorum or time complexity itself seemed alien.

It was a painful journey, but in the end I found that it comes through the following:

Practice, a lot. I don't believe that anyone pulls solutions out of thin air. When tackling an abstract problem, people draw on the similar things that they do understand and then leap to the solution they're chasing.

Study the field you're trying to understand. Read over as many examples of solutions to abstract problems, and really analyze why they work. Try to solve your own problems, using what you've observed in those ones. Hop between these two until you start to close the gap more.

In reality, you're always going to make lots of mistakes and the practicing is never going to end. Its all part of the learning, and that's a journey that shouldn't stop.

If you're interested in this field of Mathematical Logic, I suggest you listen and read about it as much as possible, that you try to pursue problems you are interested in, and that you collaborate and discuss things with others. This constant doing, in small quantities but without getting up, will eventually help you see the abstract problems for something that is much more relateable.


👤 runningmike
Systems thinking and system dynamics. Run simulations. Short intro https://www.bm-support.org/pdfdocs/BMS_BusinessDynamics.pdf

👤 proverbialbunny
Abstraction is like a multi story building. The concrete at the bottom is unrefined unprocessed raw sensory present moment experience. Building up, a floor is an abstraction built on top of that concrete floor. The concept of addition could be seen as a first floor. As we know, math builds on to of itself. The farther up the tower you go, the more abstract.

Abstractions require a solid foundation, be it a floor below, or concrete. So, when I struggle with an abstraction, I look at its base parts, identifying what is required to understand the abstraction. What I find is I often do not understand a prerequisite as well as I think I do. Sometimes I have to go multiple levels down to hash something out, but once the abstraction clicks, it becomes effortless and as difficult to think about as any other word I use in English to talk and think.

Getting a solid foundation can be a time consuming process. If you go slow and relax, you'll find the missing pieces and everything will come together.


👤 rglover
I listen to interviews with thinkers that I'd admire from all sorts of spheres: business, music, film, etc and try to stitch together how they got where they are (make a point to read the books they mention or research the people that inspire them).

It really helps your brain to form pathways to seeing connections that may not be obvious on the surface.


👤 AtomicOrbital
Read up on topics of interest to you ... join online forums on these topics ... get immersed in the unsolved challenges ... work to solve problems which take time to resolve ... progressively solve ever harder challenges ... talk to people who listen and ask hard questions

Above will get you started ... engaging in abstract thought takes time and focused attention ... coding software can provide a medium to express yourself so can expository long form writing ... before bedtime bring to mind an unsolved question then upon awakening harvest solutions ... that habit can provide feedstock for ongoing evolutionary jumps

over time increase the complexity of these long form projects ... grow them so their course may stretch for days to weeks to months to ...

nurture friendships with interesting folks ... travel wide ... gain inspiration give guidance cherish the moment


👤 sunw
When I was taking graduate-level mathematics courses, my professor told me that abstract concepts become much easier to wrestle with if we make them real through focused realization and imagination. This has served me well.

👤 quietbritishjim
I think mathematical logic is potentially a bit of a red herring. I could imagine it's easy to think, "I want to practice thinking logically, surely a good starting place is... logic?" But actually I don't think necessarily involves any more creative thinking or problem solving than any other area of mathematics, and is perhaps hard to appreciate until you've practiced mathematical logic less formally.

I'd suggest something like linear algebra or analysis (in the mathematical sense of formal proofs in calculus). Those are both a bit higher level than logic, but still very abstract.


👤 sub7
You should do a course in Automata Theory. Check out cs154.stanford.edu

I used the book "Language, Proof, and Logic" which was also excellent.

These courses will formalize concepts and allow you to apply them much better than random anecdotes.


👤 082349872349872
By forgetting. Abstraction is the process of focussing on what two (or more) things have in common by forgetting all the concrete details which make them different.

👤 anonymous532
pick up a functional programming language and learn its [concept] library, it's a great way to experiment with mathematical concepts while also having something concrete to play with. I suggest Haskell.

P.S. challenge yourself to solve problems with as few lines as possible, that way you're forced to find better (combinations of) abstractions


👤 gumby
Polya’s book “How To Solve It” is the canonical introduction to this topic and applies far beyond mathematics.

👤 olooney
Roughly in order of user friendliness and accessibility:

Puzzles can help introduce very powerful ideas without any baggage like mathematical notation. Smullyan's "Knights and Knave" style puzzles often touch very deep ideas in mathematical logic.[1] To Mock a Mockingbird[2] is probably his most famous book.

Godel, Escher, Bach has very clear, fun, and memorable descriptions of formal systems and their fascinating properties. After reading that it will be easier to view real world systems as formal systems and to understand the implications of that.[3]

Most of object-oriented programming and entity-attribute-value models can be found in the writings of Plato and Aristotle. For the purposes of abstract thinking, Plato's theory of forms[4] and Aristole's Organon[5], especially its Prior and Posterior Analytics which describe syllogistic reasoning, are probably the most important. For roughly 2000 years, this was logic. The Theaetetus[6] is also a very good introduction to epistemology and the deductive method of philosophy. In a practical sense, there is very little that programmers do in terms of modeling data or systems that does not derive more or sense directly from these two thinkers.

It's only been in the last two centuries that we've improved on Greek logic. Boole and De Morgan for propositional calculus[7], Frege and Pierce for quantification[8], which combine to create first order predicate logic[9]. From their you can either go to second-order logic or to set theory in order to begin talking about collections of things. Naive Set Theory[10] is a good introductory book, although you can jump straight in to ZFC set theory[11] for an axiomatic approach.

Relational algebra, which will be familiar in a loose sense to anyone who has ever worked with a relational database, is a formal theory that can be studied in the abstract[12]. I find the terminology (like "theta join") to be useful for thinking about advanced SQL statements. It's also very interesting to contrast relational algebra with ZFC set theory - many of the axioms are similar, but there are also crucial differences.

Lately, in the last century or so, abstract algebra[13] has proven very useful in modelling all kinds of real-world phenomena. For example, Lie groups in physics, or finite fields in cryptography. Abstract algebra basically strips down numbers to their most basic axioms and generalizes them. In group theory we study structures that have a single operation (say addition) then "rings" allow a second operation (say multiplication) and "fields" allow this second operation to be inverted. It is incredibly fruitful to model your real-world system as an abstract algebra and then to add axioms that fit your system (do your operations commute? Are the associative? Can they be reversed?) because you can then leverage a huge number of appropriate theorems.

The mother of all "abstract thinking" has to be category theory[14] which is so abstract I can hardly even describe it. Nevertheless many people find it a useful framework, with commutative diagrams[15] showing up all kinds of papers.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Smullyan

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Mock_a_Mockingbird

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del,_Escher,_Bach

[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_forms

[5]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organon

[6]: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-theaetetus/

[7]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus

[8]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantifier_(logic)

[9]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic

[10]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naive_Set_Theory_(book)

[11]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zermelo%E2%80%93Fraenkel_set_t...

[12]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_algebra

[13]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_algebra

[14]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_theory

[15]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutative_diagram


👤 azhu
Breadth in what you think about and active attempts to connect seemingly disparate pieces of information. IMO, "abstract" refers to something that is a pattern which applies to many things. As opposed to "concrete", which refers to specifics about a specific domain.

And psychedelics tbh. There is a propensity of science that says that among other things, psychedelics improve your ability to connect what you know. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S105381192...


👤 philomathdan
If you enjoyed logic, you might enjoy reading/working through this text[0]. I learned from that book when it was just written, and it remains one of my favorite books/classes. As you say, it was so very different from previous math classes I'd taken, and it opened up a whole new way of thinking for me. Although it was used for a college course, the prerequisites are minimal -- maybe at most elementary algebra?

[0]: https://www.whitman.edu/mathematics/higher_math_online/


👤 kissgyorgy
You should read about different thinking frameworks:

- https://untools.co/

- https://mindfold.co/


👤 fergie
For me, abstract thought comes best when doing abstract things. Particularly reading, camping, cycling, playing/listening to music. As somebody who spends way to much time in front of a computer monitor, I find that anything that takes me away from screens for a few days is really beneficial for mentally tackling big problems.

A great test of how well you understand a (mathematical) concept, is if you can visualise and reason about it when you are away from a desk and doing something else. That said- you can never know all the stuff you want to know, so dont stress about it :)


👤 _5659
This may be a bit too "abstract" but using mathematics to think about mathematics (ie metamathematics, philosophy of mathematics ...which is just more mathematics) is definitely the way to go.

👤 crispyambulance
Just learn more math and you'll get all the abstract thinking "workout" you can handle and then some.

But what is your goal? Is this just as a form of exercise?

If so, I recommend going through (really understanding) Godel's Incompleteness Theorem(s). In my opinion, it's very hard but it is something that's doable without an insane level of prerequisites depending on how you approach it. It's also quite interesting and one of capstones of the 20th century, but don't bring it up at cocktail parties.


👤 bmitc
The course Paradox and Infinity recently started on edX. If you start now, I think it's still possible to get a good enough grade for a certificate.

https://www.edx.org/course/paradox-and-infinity


👤 VWWHFSfQ
Listen to audio books in bed when you're going to sleep. Get an Audible subscription. Listen to Treasure Island or Of Mice and Men. It doesn't matter of you're really listening to the story. Just listen to it while you're falling asleep.

Bonus: it will really help you to go to sleep.


👤 jkire
I did a Maths degree before becoming a software engineer, and honestly I think its really changed the way I think, just in general. There's something about being given a problem, or theorem to prove, and grappling with it until you really start to get a deeper understanding. After spending hours on a single problem, sitting there trying various ideas, getting flashes of inspiration, hitting dead ends, grabbing a drink, coming back and doing it all again. Finally actually getting to the point where it all just suddenly clicks and you realise that actually if you just think about it in these ways the solution is just, well, obvious! It's really intensely satisfying; just a three line proof of "without loss of generality we can assume X, which implies Y, and so clearly Z is true". So satisfying! (Then you realise you still have another nine problems to try to do before tomorrow, oh god...)

Anyway.

To me, it really taught how to tackle Hard Problems, where you do just sit there making seemingly no process for hours/days/weeks. When you first start tackling such problems it can feel really frustrating, but actually with experience you realise that progress is being made when you slowly manage to map out the problem space and get a better intuitive understanding what's going on. I kinda do imagine it as stumbling round in the dark in an unfamiliar place, slowing groping around, hitting dead ends, then slowly but surely getting a mental model of what's around you and how it all interconnects. Once you have that understanding and intuition the problem is often, kinda, easy? Or obviously impossible and you'll need to make some trade offs.

Changing the way you think about progress to be less goal oriented and more about expanding your understanding is really quite crucial to tackling such problems I think. Both just to keep you motivated through the process and stop you from getting discouraged, but also helps you realise when you've stopped making any progress and should take a bit of a break and come back with a fresh mind.

Most of the time this skill is entirely useless, but sometimes it really is quite powerful. I guess working on Matrix is a bit of a special case, but I would never have been able to sit down and spend weeks trying to come up with a new state resolution algorithm, to pick one example, without that sort of experience. I just wouldn't know where to start, and I'd become demotivated by the end of the first day and likely give up (knowing me).

All of this rambling is to say: I think Maths is really something you have to do. Reading books about it is interesting and great and all, but if you really want a deeper understanding you have to get stuck, get your hands dirty and try to solve problems. I don't mean problems where you take that cool theorem you just learnt and apply it or figure out how to apply, but problems where you actually have to come with ideas and theories on your own. (Now, I have no idea how feasible that is outside a formal setting and without supervisors, but that's really the dream).

I hope that in some ways helps, even if its probably entirely devoid of practical advice :)


👤 yizhang7210
I find algebraic geometry really interesting and helps me with my abstract thinking too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_geometry


👤 daralthus
Conversely, I seem to have the opposite problem and not being able to work on anything in the concrete. Always just expanding onto different perspectives and revelations about the systems I am supposed to work with.

Any advice for that?


👤 gcc_programmer
Write down & summarise everything you read. It doesn't have to be thorough and you don't even have to read it again, but somehow putting it down in words clears up any unknown confusions for me.

👤 jimhefferon
You might like Teach Yourself Logic, https://www.logicmatters.net/tyl/

👤 TMWNN
I've enjoyed working through https://regexcrossword.com/

👤 watwut
Algebra - group theory. I think that it kind of similar to abstract thinking in programming, through I have hard time to express exactly why.

👤 the_arun
Depends on what you are thinking. Mathematical thinking without emotions - may yield better algorithms/analysis - consumable by machines - not sure about humans. Humans need emotions attached to their thinking. Suppose if we are solving a human problem or building a product consumable by humans - the end goals are different and attached to emotions - delight/happiness/experience etc., Hopefully, I didn't misunderstand your question :)

👤 hypertexthero
Draw on paper with a pencil.

https://vimeo.com/6986303


👤 syndacks
Read novels.

👤 dirtnugget
Acid

👤 akkuraten
Play Go

👤 linus_torvalds
Most competitive programmers suggest Polya's "How to Solve It". His "Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning" is also good, but longer and more dense.

👤 hartator
Read books.