Am I the longest-serving programmer – 57 years and counting?
In May of 1963, I started my first full-time job as a computer programmer for Mitchell Engineering Company, a supplier of steel buildings. At Mitchell, I developed programs in Fortran II on an IBM 1620 mostly to improve the efficiency of order processing and fulfillment. Since then, all my jobs for the past 57 years have involved computer programming. I am now a data scientist developing cloud-based big data fraud detection algorithms using machine learning and other advanced analytical technologies. Along the way, I earned a Master’s in Operations Research and a Master’s in Management Science, studied artificial intelligence for 3 years in a Ph.D. program for engineering, and just two years ago I received Graduate Certificates in Big Data Analytics from the schools of business and computer science at a local university (FAU). In addition, I currently hold the designation of Certified Analytics Professional (CAP). At 74, I still have no plans to retire or to stop programming.
I am 80 years old and still working full time in IT. Although I evolved from pure programming to project management and business analysis the past few years. Originally started out working at Cape Canaveral as a radar and telemetry engineer and moved into programming after I left there. Whenever I interview, I completely ignore the age issue. If the interviewer is to dumb to recognize the value of my knowledge and experience, that is on them. Finally completed my PhD in Computer science when I was in my 60's.
Welcome to HN and for making this place more magical by your presence. Have seen other very senior programmers here over the years. Paul Lutus comes to mind now[1].
One question: Do you go through a mid life crisis in programming in your 40s/50s?
My story (just felt like sharing): I am in my 40s and have been programming for 30 years (I first wrote in Fortran in my Engineering College, 1st semester). Later professionally coded in C++ for around 10 years (and still keep coming back to it, as needed). Java for 10 years. Golang for 7 years. And Python for last 2-3 years. And there were other languages like Visual basic (late 90s). A lot of Unix shell scripting. I still think, I am at my best. But do have occasional self doubts. The main difference from younger days, which is perceptible to me, is the need for eye glasses, and needing slightly bigger fonts on occasions (HN is perfect that way).
I teach/guide my elder son, in programming, who just turned 20, and doing well as a programmer - did half of K&R C chapters and decent in algorithmic programming. Spent few months at Codeforces website and reached specialist level (Next level is Expert, which is generally considered respectable by any standard). And he also likely lurks on HN. :)
So now, when I see your message, it only makes me happy, that HN has likely at least 3 generation of programmers if not more.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=lutusp
Edit: typo
Being 63, I don't get to say this very often: I am one of the youngest people in this conversation.
Delighted to read these stories about even-older-than-me old-timers. Even though I am a relative spring chicken, I'll list my old-timey computing experiences:
- Started programming on programmable Wang and Monroe calculators.
- PDP-8m in high school. 12k 12-bit words for four terminals running Basic. By special arrangement, I could take over the whole thing and use FORTRAN.
- IBM-370 in college, and I spent lots of hours on an IBM 029 keypunch. (That's where I developed my love of loud, clicky keyboards.)
- First job with Datasaab (yes, a computer division of Saab), and I programmed in their weird DIL-16 language.
- PDP-11 in grad school.
- Various VAXen in my early working life. Picked up Emacs in 1985 and now it's in my fingertips.
- A buddy and I wrote a book intended to support people who needed to work with a large variety of computing environments, (a real problem my buddy encountered). It was instantly obsolete, as it was published as minis were dying and PCs were becoming dominant. (https://www.amazon.ae/Computer-Professionals-Quick-Reference...)
- Many years in startups, mostly in Unix/Linux environments.
Retired now, but still enjoying programming. Having a blast with my current project: https://github.com/geophile/marcel.
Knuth was being paid by Burroughs to implement an Algol-58 compiler in 1960. He’s still programming, and seems to have advice for others on the subject. But I don’t expect to see him here.
Congratulations on being in that company, and may it long continue.
Depending how and whether you count academia, Donald Knuth may have a slightly longer career: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Knuth
Feels like a decent chance you're third, then. Certainly you're one of the longest-working programmers. Best of luck. :)
Respect! I've only been programming since approx 1979. I still remember the first time that I saw internet technology used in 1982 - transferring a file from the US to the Uni of Leeds in the UK. I also have no plans to stop although I have retired from full-time employment. Now just a hobbyist, who programs every few days, at my own pace and on my own projects.
Here's my own thought. My last place of work did a lot of research into teaching and simulation tech, and was heavily pushing AR / VR solutions from a disruptor perspective. Some of the theoreticians were heavily into their generation X/Y/Z perspectives and made a lot the advantages that young people would have as 'digital natives'.
As someone who'd been using computers since before they were born, I was quietly amused as being characterised as someone who couldn't properly understand tech because I didn't program until I was age 17/18. It could be argued that many modern digital natives are really the locked-in inhabitants of digital cities and walled gardens. I now characterise myself as a sort of 'digital settler' who in retrospect could be viewed as a pioneer on the digital frontier (although this is not how I perceived it in the early 80s when I was learning Pascal and then C on DEC, Amdhal and Vaxen).
I think my message for people who want to stay involved with the tech is to decouple their enjoyment of it from their career aspirations. Of course, YMMV!
What do you think about all of the advances that happened in your time, especially with what machine learning is capable of these days (fully artificial human faces, for one)?
Any advice (technical or life) for us younger people?
Respect! That's truly inspirational. At barely half the experience with 30 years I keep wondering about what next. I still do plenty of programming in C (which, along with Z80 and 8086 assembly, is what I started with), Python and JS with some dabbling in Go. I find the problem solving part as invigorating and exhilarating as ever. What I do struggle with is the 100x additional lines of code which will be needed to make that initial code usable by others. That is needed and all that, but is stuff I would have done dozens of times in the past in different contexts and sometimes approaches drudgery. I wonder if you have any advice on how to keep the interest from flagging in a project past that initial days/weeks of deep absorption. Thanks again for sharing this.
Wow! I appreciate all the interest and feedback - quite unexpected. I'm glad I found HN. I'll try to add more responses tomorrow.
Congrats, you made it top 1 on HN! When we live in a world where experience is treated as baggage it is remarkable to find people in places like here to still appreciate it. I hope you will be able to enjoy your career until you decide yourself to retire! I think a lot of younger folks here, who are old by modern standards - I just turned 40 this year - are thirsty for some wisdom and lots of questions will be asked. And please don’t be offended if someone attacks you for some oppinion, this is the world we live in nowadays, someone’d find a fault in almost anything or anyone.
A bit of commentary on age discrimination in IT.
Of course, it exists. If you are over 40 and go on an interview where the interviewer is a 20 something kid you know what I mean.
My approach to age discrimination can be summed up this way.
Screw them. I have more experience and knowledge in the field than 99% of the people working in it, especially the managers. And I project that in an interview. I don't give a crap what they think of my age and I make sure they know that. I have what they need and they would be better off recognizing that.
Does that attitude work every time? Of course not. But I will be dammed if I will be submissive and put up with age discrimination. To hell with them. If they don't give me a job, some with better sense will.
The key is NEVER GIVE UP.
Thank you, this is a wonderful post! Please share more of your story. (Write a book, please).
I would love to hear answers to the following:
1. What ideas proved useful throughout your career, and what ideas did you change your mind about?
2. What are your hobbies? Do you still program in your spare time - if so, what? Or do you find other outlets?
3. What went into the decision to go back to school? Did you get the PhD? If not, did you get burned out, or what lured you away?
4. What were the Big Ideas in software over your career that didn't work out? Any that were better than expected?
5. General successes/regrets/advice for these readers!
Not looking to compete for the crown, but I have been involved with software development on and off since 1970. I started college in 1969, and really loved my liberal arts and social science courses, but began having panic attacks in class (I found out many years later that I was bipolar). My hail Mary move was switching majors to 'Business Data Processing'. My thought being that programming would give me a salable skill the quickest. We were doing JCL and COBOL programming on the school mainframe using punch cards. The panic attacks continued, and I dropped out of school in 1971. In 1975, I enlisted in the US Air Force, and spent six years working in Signal Intelligence. I have been part of the defense contractor corps (aka Beltway Bandits) since 1981, and doing database development/admin continuously from 1988 to this day. I'm 69 now.
My grandpa is ~75, started programming professionally in his early 20s, and currently works as an engineer for the University of Utah, so my hunch is that there’s more people with 50+ years of software engineering experience than you might at first suspect.
Either that or I just doxxed myself ;)
You have my respect sir (I assume, but women have been a significant force in programming since the days of Yore).
I have been writing software since 1983, and Apple software since 1986. I started as an EE (actually, technician, but became an EE in '84).
I was a manager for a large part of my career, which relegated my programming to open-source projects (one of which has become a rather significant force, in its own right).
I also worked for a Japanese corporation for almost 27 years. The Japanese have a sort of "reverse-ageism" in their culture. Older folks are often treated with a great deal of respect, and their judgment is considered valuable. Many promotions have age (must be "at least"...) as a factor. There's lots of issues with Japanese business culture, but it was the environment where I learned a lot of my cultural cues.
So, it has been rather...interesting to encounter the current...um...level of respect...for experienced engineers in today's American tech industry.
TBH, it was shocking. I knew that it was a factor, but I had no idea that it was so prevalent. I was absolutely gobsmacked.
When I first encountered it, I just wanted to throw in the towel and run, but I don't work that way. Instead, I doubled-down, and it has been quite gratifying. I guess old dudes can code, after all...
Again, you have my respect.
This guy is inspiring: https://www.businessinsider.sg/oldest-nobel-prize-winner-art...
Periodically there are questions here about dealing with burnout and learning to cope with technological change/churn. Someone who's been doing it enthusiastically for over half a century sounds like exactly the kind of person who could offer advice on that. Do you have any?
Grace Hopper apparently retired from the navy when she was _80_. And then went into consulting. So you’ve a few years to go yet.
I think you probably are, if you go by date you started working to the date you stopped! Even Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie seem to have started their first programming jobs a few years after you.
Welcome to HN! I hope you stick around, it can be a great place.
given the numerous posts about age discrimination on hn, i'm delighted to hear your story and wish you many more years of happy programming. as a whipper-snapper 40-something developer, it gives me hope and motivation.
I learned programming in Fall 1961 from Forman Acton at Princeton. Programmed IBM 601 in Bell I, IBM 1620 in Fortran II. First job was summer 1962 at Bolt, Beranek, and Newman programming the PDP-1 in assembly. Never stopped working as a programmer. Main language now is Python. I am machine learning architect at Sigma Labs Inc. I am 80 and I played NIM on a computer built to do ballistics in 1947 at Maxon Corporation.
In my company, we can get "Senior Developer" title after 3 to 4 year experience.
What your current title?
Goals! As a mere 49-year-old who learned to code 38 years ago and only has 15 years' professional experience, it pisses me off to hear people whining about ageism in tech; I'm sure certain sectors of the hotshot startup world are biased towards "bright young things" but as far as I can tell there are many orgs that have a place for grizzled greybeards and I certainly don't plan to ever retire. What would I do? I'm still amazed every day that they pay me good money for doing the thing that has been my hobby since age 11, and even if I didn't need the money I'm sure it would continue to be one of my favourite hobbies that I would do just for fun.
It just occurred to me how interesting it will be for the new generation who start so much younger and longer life expectancy what they'll see in their long careers. Given how much has changed in your story, from Fortran to AlphaZero and GPT-2. How much will change in theirs? Will the singularity appear to be in sight? Will programmers disappear like telephone operators?
Hats off to you, genedangelo! I retired last year after about 40 years of work but I am still programming. I think that we as programmers are lucky to be in a profession where our personal interest and professional work can coincide. More importantly, we can carry our interest well into retired life. This is a golden age for people like us: we can buy microcontrollers for peanuts or we could have a supercomputer-like cluster in the cloud (for a brief period) for a reasonable amount of money. And anything in between.
I was thrilled to see Walter Bright (@WalterBright) on here a few days ago! I don't think he's been working for 57 years but he certainly has a few stories to tell.
57 years is an amazing innings in such a relentless field - congratulations, and long may you continue.
Congrats! Just curious, as someone with so much experience, do you still have to do coding challenges when interviewing for positions?
Serious question: How do you sit and type? What chair and what angle has worked best for your back and neck all these years?
hello dear Gene,
Wow, I wasn't even born in 1963 (1965 issue here), and I really got into programming around 15 or so, so 40 years and counting on this end. Super impressive that you still enjoy coding and do not plan to retire.
These days I only code for myself, I've stopped doing commercial work but will occasionally help out in places where my particular combination of talents is useful. I also don't plan on giving it up at all but you never know what the future will bring and I'm very sure that my mental faculties are not at the same level where they were 20 years ago, nor do I get as fired up about a cool algorithm as I did back then.
Being born around that time and seeing all this development has been a ride that I would not trade for anything else except for - retrospectively - a career in music (which still is my first love) or - corny, but timely - being an astronaut. But not to fly circles around the earth. So all things considered I feel both lucky and privileged and I wonder if those are things that you share or would care to talk about.
best regards & a very warm welcome to HN.
I think you may be. I got to try programming a Basic timesharing system in 1963 when I was a kid, in 1972 I had a summer job doing FORTRAN, and then started a full time programming job after getting a BS in Physics from UCSB in 1973.
So you have ten more years working than I do.
I'm at 50 years (so far).
Thank you for making me feel young in this crowd! Started in 1974, still at it.
At 38 years and a graduate of the ZX81 school of programming I am but a mere whippersnapper.
But I look forward to the day when I have accumulated sufficient experience to truly understand Lisp.
May the code by with you. Always.
Fist bump.
Congrats on an awesome career. You are an inspiration. Slice up fulfillment data in Fortran II before rules and drama -- legit. What are the younger programmers doing wrong? (I don't think we are much quicker - at anything). Also #1 on hacker news.
I'm happy to see that you've kept up with new fields and changes in the industry. I've worked with several older programmers and they've usually been very set in their ways and shown little interest in developing new skills.
Thanks for posting. Just laying the feels wide open here. It's an inspiration to know you're still at it and I sure hope to be at it too. Lots of worthwhile problems to still solve.
My mother is still coding Fortran at 76. I think she may have started a couple of years after you though. Fortran forever!
Could you talk more about what you remember from your time at Mitchell Engineering Company? You worked on order processing and fulfillment...what was lacking in their process that they wanted to computerize? Was your project deemed a business success? Were you happy while you were working on it? Was it just you or a team?
For me I’ve learned programming is one of the purest feelings of joy I experience. Even regardless of the language or environment. It’s so thrilling to get to take something apart and put it back together to solve a problem. I feel so lucky to have such work. Congrats. I hope I can make it to 74 writing code!
Congratulations! I hope it's okay this has turned into an AMA :D. Feel free to not answer!
What do you think the biggest shift for day to day programming was for you in your 57 years?
Amazing career. You inspire me. Not only because you have continued this long, but because you have progressed your education and skills. You have veered toward ultra cool programming with machine learning. While I only work on CRUD webservices... which there is a big need for, but lacks the coolness of machine learning.
When considering going back to school or focussing efforts on writing software for employers/clients, I always side on writing software. But with your story I will give more weight to going back to school, as it might lead to new avenues.
I'm in my 40's and really enjoy these stories from older programmers to help me stay motivated. I like to believe that my best days are always ahead of me, and your story helps me affirm that.
First, thank you for sharing and welcome to HN! :)
Second, I want to take a moment to commemorate and celebrate my father, who enrolled at MIT in 1967, graduated w a Master's in CSEE, spent 25 years working at GenRad and continued working as a software engineer (at MathWorks) until the week before he passed away in early 2018. So he was a programmer for over 50 years. While I'm unlikely to reach that milestone (having started "late", a couple years after graduating college in 1996), my younger brother wrote his first program at age 5 and is still at it today (36 years and counting).
No particular point to make here, just reflecting on our chosen field and feeling very, very fortunate to be part of this community. Be well! :)
Very impressive and significant!
My experience began on the Altair 8800 as a kid in my brothers' bedroom. Continued on personal computers to the present day. So maybe the longest (possible) PC experience, but I'm sure it's shared by many.
I thought I was an old timer, with my Fortran 77 experience. But Fortran II! If it followed the naming convention, that was from 1902, right?
Welcome to Hacker News. They don't always treat us graybeards well so you'll need to be tough.
Inventor of Forth, Chuck Moore still codes. He is 81. He funded his last startup at tender age of 70 (Green Arrays).
How did you avoid going into "management" ??
Have you ever been "promoted" to project manager?
This made my day, absolutely wonderful achievement! Especially the area that you’re now in...it’s really not an easy task to retrain yourself for ML.
I’m 12 years in professionally and still loving every second of it! Currently been slugging out Leetcode problems all hours of the day to try and get myself to an org with a proper engineering track. So maybe further down the line I still might be able to solve computer problems (in some way or form) during my day.
I really hope to someday to be able to come onto HN and do the same thing as you :)
Is there any way we can meet you sir? At a conference or meetup etc. You're an inspiration and that should be an honor for someone like me. I'm 35 and 17 years of coding and enjoying every moment of that. Though I sometimes think it's been a long time, I'm getting old, etc. but compared to you, I'm a kid and have a long way to go.
My answer to people who ask me "For how long do you think you can code, you need to become a manager or whatever" has always been "Until I die".
In September 1961, I learned programming from Forman Acton at Princeton. Programmed IBM 601 in Bell I, IBM 1620 and IBM 709 in Fortran II, Algol, COBOL, assembly. First job was July 1962 at Bolt, Beranek, and Newman programming DEC PDP-1 in assembly. Never stopped working as a programmer. Currently programming Linux computers mostly in Python. I am machine learning architect for Sigma Labs, Inc. I am 80. I played NIM in 1947 on the front panel of a ballistics computer at Maxon Corporation.
My grandfather was born in 1945 and worked as a programmer in East Germany and then unified Germany. He retired a few years ago.
He started as a mathematicatian, and probably worked with computers professionally only after 1963.
Programming in East Germany was .. interesting. For example, they used punch cards long after they were out of date in the west. My grandfather still has lots of punch card origami he did while waiting for his batch jobs to finish.
That sounds so great! You were working in an area where computers had black-green terminals, you saw when people were afraid what will happen if the date changes to 2000 :scream:, you saw the Sony Ericsson handy area, smartphones, tables, wearables and now ML! Exciting man and I want to be able to write here in ~40 years.
Congrats to all what you have achieved! :clap:
This is really great! Keep doing what you are doing, Sir.
I once had the pleasure of interviewing a German consultant who was into Android programming and he was like 48 or 50 years old. The interview was like listening to stories of his programming days with various hardware(Commodore etc) and it was fascinating that too with his precise German English accent.
Awesome! I have no plans to retire. I turn 50 in a few weeks and just returned back to the technology field after leaving it for 14 years.
Eventually I plan on getting another masters or a PhD in data science, statistics or some other computer science field.
If I could I'd buy you a cup of coffee and pick your brain. If you went to FAU then we are relatively close.
I’m curious as to when you knew/decided it was time to fully immerse yourself into a new frame of programmatic thinking. Switching languages is sometimes simple, if the syntax is similar, but what about a low level to a medium level language? IE assembly to java or something. Or perhaps what invited the change to study the operations component versus the analytical component?
A lot of people have comfort in their current programming language, and talk down about other languages.. resistant to change. And sometimes they are right because things are evolving too quickly that they could be a fad or become a standard and popular.
Again, curious as to when/how you felt it was a good time to learn something new. And this is specifically geared towards your later years.
I’m in my early 30s. And with technology changing so much, I’m curious if I’ll still be in touch with it all in 30+ years. And how you seemed to accomplish it.
Thanks and I hope I can hear from you!
I think it's awesome that you have had a long career and still going. I know of one gentleman in a similar situation. I think he may be in his late 70's or even early 80's. He's currently working on porting some Fortran or Cobol code he wrote in his 20's from his first job ever!
An interview with you would be fantastic.
Do any of the computer museums do that?
My mom used to interview people, mostly seniors, to capture oral traditions, get first hand accounts. I think the process she used was called "oral history". A simple format that any one could use to do their own interviews. She was long time volunteer for our local Swede-Finn historical org. She figured out how to do this once her parent's friends started passing away.
A friend played fiddle and was really into Americana. Most of the musicians were 70+. When they passed, all their lore and many of their songs were lost. So she started recording her friends and capturing their bios, life stories, stories about the music. She self-published a book and cassette combo. Two volumes, IIRC.
Just two examples of what I'm suggesting.
You've got me beat. I learned to program in the late 70's taking adult evening classes at local university (PL/1 punched card batch system), got my first home computer in 1979(NASCOM-1 Z80 1MHz kit - DIY solder assembly), took Math/CS in university, then started programming professionally in 1982, and still going strong.
My first job was at Acorn Computers Ltd (UK), writing Acorn ISO Pascal in 6502 assembler, and fast forward almost 40 years currently working for major Telecom writing C++ frameworks/libraries for Linux. Still enjoy it as a hobby too, currently writing my third C++ neural network framework (full blown, GPU accelerated, etc), with lifetime goal of eventually building autonomous robot with animal/human level AI.
I am 47, I started with basic a TI99 4/A, I loved computers but I stopped at school when I was 15. At 30 I went back to evening classes and in 10 years I finished high-school and an IT degree while working full-time. I managed to get a job in Italy (I am Italian) but it was frustrating there that I emigrated to England. I have been hating my life and job since the superficiality and ignorance of people, all these horrible corporations using Java or .NET. On March I finished a contract and I cannot find another one, because of the changes in the IR35 law that the pathetic UK government made and the virus after. I was working only for the money, now everything is gone.
I am 47, too coward to kill myself, too terrified to take more shit.
I have been a coder for 9+ years now but im seeing variations in my X-Rays of my neck due to long hours of sitting, i guess.
Do you face any such health issues related to the profession? Or do you do/practice anything that can avoid such health conditions related to the profession?
My experiences with programmers that have more than 30 years on the job fall into 1 of 2 categories...
1. Constant complaining about the state of things(too much memory, too complicated, back in my day, blah, blah, blah). Why do I have to learn git?, containers?, on, and on, and on. VMs are just fine, what's wrong with java 1.4?, ... exhausting . These programmers probably sucked when they had 5 years of experience and continue to suck today. Crossed arms, learned helplessness level 99.
2. Crazy life long learners that have ridden one technology wave after another for decades on end. When something new comes out they are on it like flies on picnic food.
It's my greatest, most sincere hope that I have the energy, temperament to become the latter.
Thanks for sharing!
> Since then, all my jobs for the past 57 years have involved computer programming
As others have pointed out, there are definitely older, working programmers like Margaret Hamilton [0], but who may not have programming as the main part of their job. Would you say programming is the main part of your day as a data scientist (I have no idea, as I've thought DS could encompass a variety of non-programming work)?
A common question that comes up with mid-career programmers is whether they should take the jump into management – how have you dealt with that crossroads throughout your career?
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23367138
Small shout out for Sir Maurice Wilkes, who was involved in some of the earliest stored program concept computers back in the late 40s (designed and built EDSAC in 48/49, and the inventor of microprogramming in the early 50s. Worked in the Computer Lab in Cambridge for years, spent some time in the US, and returned to the lab in the early 2000's. Was still a feature in the labs until not long before his death in 2010, at the grand old age of 97. Would have been around the 60 odd year mark at that stage. I can't speak to how much he was working at that stage, but still a very impressive career and a very impressive individual.
I'm 28 and I wanna be like you. You don't know how inspiring you are, buddy :)
Thanks for sharing!
I am exactly half your age and have been programming seriously for only for 25 years (if we consider talking over serial/COM ports at 1200 bauds or passing printer escape sequences from a DOS ncurses-like software written in BASIC serious :), and I can't imagine not programming in the future. Programming is the art of creating solutions for me, and I am sure you can relate!
However, I do hope to retire early, to allow me to work down the long bucket list of ideas I have.
As with anyone in programming for so long, I am sure you have a similar bucket list :)
Thus, my question is: what has kept you at your jobs?
Congrats! I love reading inspiring posts on HN!
There are probably many of us who will probably follow in your footsteps. Provided that Stack Overflow continues to exist, I have no plans to ever stop programming either.
Do you still type source code?
How do you rate your mental agility versus your younger self?
Thanks for posting, it's good to see long-time developers that did not move to management :)
How many jobs have you held, and what was your criteria when switching jobs (apart from any possible family reasons)?
Looking back, is there any favorite technology of yours (language, concept, anything)
Do you feel the industry is buzzword-driven to a significant extent? (e.g. things get rebranded, reinvented, reimplemented on latest tech instead of fixing and improving existing things, business value does not get better but software often gets more resource-hungry)
Thank you for this. As a 40yo with 15 years into this profession, I have been having recurring feeling like “being at the crossroads”. This is exactly what I needed to get inspired. Respect.
@genedangelo As a programmer, do you feel pressure with time passage?
Have you felt any problem with memory or speed of thinking, have you ever thought about how it was in certain stages of your life from the perspective of abilities to do things?
No disrespect, after only 20 years (third of your time) sometimes I feel that it was much easier to solve things in the beginning, so sometimes I am kind of worried what will happen if I ever live to that age. Generally I am interested how does cognitive ability changes with age.
I'm not sure if he is still programming now (he was a few years ago at least) but Jeff Whittle started programming in 1962 on a Ferranti Sirius[0]. He was awarded an AO (Order of Australia) for his services to the Mining Industry a few years ago due to his mining optimisation software.
[0]https://whittleconsulting.com.au/livebook/downloads/3.5-Stor...
This is quite inspiring to read. What languages do you work with these days? What do you miss about the "old way" of programming? You have such a unique perspective.
No, probably not the longest-serving, though maybe longest-serving who is on HN.
Also: 74 - 57 = 17 years of age when you started as a full time programmer. How did you pull that off in 1963?
What a great post. It’s inspiring to know it’s possible to stay in this industry so long. Having read many stories of programmers having to retire early or switch into management or different careers, it’s wonderful to hear from someone who has kept going. Have you had any physical health challenges along the way such as RSI/arthritis? Im asking because I’m only in my mid 30s and already having difficulty with arthritis in my fingers.
I have a question, did your wage stop going up at some point?
Where do you work now? And also, I've heard that at Google for example, there is prejudice against older programmers? Have you experienced anything like that?
That is wonderful! Hey I'm from Florida too! (I assume you've at least been there since you mentioned FAU) :) You are doing what I hope to: code even if I 'retire' I intend to code till the day I can't anymore.
Welcome to HN! It's a great place, has a few things I don't like here or there, but overall a great place to learn all sorts of things and learn about all sorts of people from varying backgrounds.
I only managed 40 years programming before I "got retired" by the company I worked for. I was past my full Social Security entitlement age so I could have voluntarily retired but I wasn't ready. They felt they could hire a couple of younger people for what they were paying me. That was true, but they lost a lot of experience that will cost them more dollars than their salaries!
Whether you are or not, I congratulate you on your achievement. And the fact that you’re posting it on HN definitely counts for extra!
Well done!
I just retired at 78 after 55 years as a programmer, database and GIS specialist. Now I'm using those skills pro bono to help farmers adopt wireless sensors and take advantage of the latest IOT developments with Arduino/Raspberry Pi type technology. Started on punch cards, TTY 33 paper tape and mag tapes on a CDC 6400.
For those in the same boat, any tips you can provide to overcome the commonly cited barriers?
For example: maintaining the required mental agility needed to do the job, learning new technologies that come and go, overcoming relevant biases, staying relevant as "less experienced" workers seem sufficient to do the same job, etc.
I had a pleasure working with Andrey Michailovich Smirnov when I was around 36 in 2007. He was 75 at the time and was definitely run circles around me. For example, he was able to produce working compiler for subset of Fortran with compilation into dynamic dataflow machine in two-three weeks.
I don't think he was retired.
You've given this 51 year old coder (31 years in the coding seat) new hope! I did 21 years of those in start-ups, so it's been kind of harrowing. Hoping this year to go full time remote. Started with RPG-III/System38s, now doing nodeJS/nextJS/react. Adapt or die :)
Congratulations!!. What made you stick to Programming and not go the path of leadership? Are you on linkedin ?
My father-in-law retired from a software engineering position at age 75. I'd be 57 years in the industry if I retired then. It seems doable; I know a couple of software types approaching or over 70 now.
This would be convenient because the 32-bit signed time_t apocalypse is in early 2037. :-)
I started programming as a child in around 1979 and have been programming professionally since 1987. So you have me beat by quite a margin. Congratulations! I can't imagine stopping programming as long as I am still capable of doing it.
I wonder if ageism will lessen as there are so many programmers now getting older. I suppose it's mostly in the hands of the hiring manager. I don't know... it's just a thought; would be curious to hear others' opinions.
> I am now a data scientist developing cloud-based big data fraud detection algorithms using machine learning and other advanced analytical technologies.
Put that in a pitch deck and raise whatever you want!
J/K! Congratulations on the career, success and evolution!
Hey man!.. I'm 53, and I design 3D synthetic worlds with physic simulators in python and C++ for the aeronautic industry. That's on top of still running strong webdev with the latest tech. So yeah, what's your worry?
Question: How has your enjoyment of programming ebbed and flowed over the years?
That is great to see someone who has being doing this for so long. True respect for someone like this instead of someone who is just jumping the band wagon because tv show like Mr. Robot, the React FB, side effect.
Respect for how you achieved continuous learning along the way
1/ Did you ever feel isolated in a group because of age?
2/ How did you manage to stay focused when your colleagues may just be growing up the ladder?
Mate first of all my huge huge respect to you for keeping at it. This is true passion and I really really wish that see more of it. I hope you are doing what you enjoy for another 50 years at least!!!
Keep at it! I'm 68, started programming when I was 17 on a PDP-8 with Dartmouth Basic, paper tape and a teletype. Moved on from there to mainframes, minis, workstations. Still working and learning.
Respect! I plan to do the same when I get old. You are an inspiration Sir.
Congratulations! You're an inspiration!
Tell us, what is the secret to your longevity?
Dam - I thought my 40 years was pushing ...
Thanks for the inspiration!
In an interview Bill Gates said he likes TypeScript. It was about a year ago. Sure he’s not a full time programmer but something tells me the itch will always be there for us the curious! :)
I started writing systems software (at IBM, in 360 assembler language) in 1967, but I didn't have your stamina, or single-mindedness: I retired in 1997. But I still write code for fun.
What’s your daily routine now and how has it evolved over the years?
A professor at college can work late into his/her 70s or 80s.
so should be software engineers.
This is truly inspirational, I also plan to keep coding well into 70s/80s, just loving it, or as long as I can.
Well you've got me beat anyway :). My hat's off to you. I started as a hobby in 1975 on an HP3000 mainframe, aged 15, and landed my first professional gig in 1987.
I wonder if you got any health issues related to your profession? What do you do to keep yourself in shape physically and mentally? Congratulations on your success.
If I can include non-professional, then I have been programming since 5th grade in 1981. Started out on Apple][ and TI-99/4A at school and home respectively.
That's a lot of typing, over 57 years. How did you avoid RSI, carpal tunnel, and other injuries / health problems related to programming for this long?
This is pretty cool. Definitely worth documenting I think.
ho, man I feel real lonely not finding any people who are like to screw around and code for pleasure. so many smart polished developers that would do something else if enviroment was different, but kills my heart. I would love to code forever, but I am not as tenacious as those are superprofessional I rather would like to enjoy and freeride the waves of code, And I find conversing within community dispiriting.
Am I alone?
Can we have a blog with your programming / life adventures?
Also, it would be wise to name it "genedangelo in byteland" haha! ^_^
you remember my Father. Worked for IBM in the end of 60s, worked as COBOL developer, then went the whole process until become Territory manager from IBM and after retirement, got a second master in Quality assurance testing, and now in the age of 75 got, this week, his Scrum master certification and spend his day busy with python :)
Sir, when you were first starting out what was the standard dress for coders and how have you seen it evolve over the years?
Curious what is your salary? Can you share?
It’s interesting you can be a little bit more than twice my age, but have 6 times as much professional experience.
Even if not the longest-serving, you're definitely quite high on the list. Thanks for sharing your story!
My grandmother started working on adding machines at IBM right after college in 1939. She retired in the 1980s programming in Cobol for Nielsen Media Research. Her daughter, my mother, was also a programmer and married another. My father is still programming at 74, though I think he was 73 at his last paying job (doing audio classification with RNNs). All of their tenures are a few years shy of yours, but in aggregate it's competitive.
TL;DR everyone ancestor of mine born since 1916 has been a computer programmer.
If you ever start a blog, I would love to read the stories and experiences you are willing to share.
Nobody said it yet, but you sir, are a badass. I think many of us hope we will be like you.
That’s very nice to hear
My question is how do you keep your technical knowledge upto date
Phew. I am about 30 and i fear age discrimination. Love to hear more of these stories.
Started in 1978. No longer program professionally (much) but still do it for fun.
Curious, why would people throw those fancy abbreviations at you all the time.
How many programming languages and frameworks have you learned in total?
Congratulations on the longevity. Here's to the next 57 years!
Kinda related: I’m a second generation programmer and my son a third
Can you do a reddit AMA?? I think many people would be interested
I salute you and all of the others who are still going strong.
Please someone make a movie about Highlander programmers!
this thread makes me feel a bit better about getting old.
My wife and I BOTH have been programming over 40 years.
Would be interesting to hear some of the stories.
This post is undoubtedly inspiring ! Thank you.
What kind of programming do you do these days?
Someone should get this gentleman on a podcast
!!please get in to anti-cheat engineering for multi-player networked games. the battle between game developers and funded cheat orgs is cold war-esque
You have me beat by 20 years, sir.
Cool, I hope you keep on coding!
Not too shabby.
Karma of 884 in one day.
I've been doing this for 10 years, but as a 10x ninja I clearly have racked up 100 man-years of shitting out c.
Jokes aside, i wish I worked with guys who have so much experience. I'm sure it would be humbling.
You're at least old enough to have made the computer that I'm using to do my codding stuff.
Every single person who calls you “inspirational” or “impressive” is actually revealing their own age prejudice. A programmer still programming while growing old is not something to marvel at, it is the normal state of things. Please do not allow people to put you on a pedestal; this would only strengthen the age prejudice present in the industry.
Note: You deserve considerable respect and deference for the experience and skill you have no doubt acquired over the years. Also, since there are so few people like you who started programming in those years, you are an unusual and notable person. But don’t let anyone insinuate that it would have been normal for you to have stopped programming by now. It is not.